Are D&D rulebooks stuck in the 70's?

[Petrosian]

"From the rogue/ sneak attack thread, it just slapped me in the face how combat is incredibly over-valued in the rulebooks....

I wish Wizards would get in step with what the 21st century is doing with roleplaying.... you know, ROLEPLAYING?!"

I think you have a premise problem.

I don't buy the premise that somehow combat and roleplaying are exclusory, that the more you have of one the less you have of the other.

Having a more detailed combat resolution system makes sense from a very simple standpoint... most of your players have little to no experience in combat and how it works and so they need rules and mechanics to help them resolve those tasks. These rules needs to work reasonably well not only in giving the players an understandable mechanic but also in giving them benchmarks to enable them to estimate the outcome ahead of time... ie balance is important.

Having less detailed rules (the basic skill system) for resolving social interactions, romances and the like because their players have at least a little more knowledge of these. In many games, rules provided for these won't even be used in lieu of just "running with it."

In DND, the rules seem to have done a decent job with giving mechanics where mechanics were needed and less where less is needed.

I don't think this puts them in the 70's or the 90's, and so forth, at all. it just means they did have a decent understanding of their audience and the needs.

 

[Desdichado]

Keep in mind, I'm 33, and mostly game with couples - men and *gasp* women.

So by 10 minutes into a combat, the ladies are getting restless, on the whole, and would rather go back to journeying and citytalk.

Oddly enough the wive's in my group are more likely to pick a fight than the husbands. One couple in particular is notorious -- the wife almost always plays a half-orc fighter or barbarian and the husband's characters always turn into some kind of wussy prancing fairy bardy thing that everyone rolls their eyes at.

To the real question at hand -- the combat rules are the most detailed, because that's what needs more rules. I like the skill system fine -- I think it's a great tool, but it's not nearly as critical to the game, because that's the kind of stuff you can just roleplay out or have a DM ruling on the fly. Combat, on the other hand, people tend to take much more seriously, so it needs to be more rigorously codified.

EDIT: Although I won't step within a 10 foot pole's reach of a dungeon. That, to me, is trite, cliche and tres boring. But I've been dubbed the latte set of d20 gamers before, so that doesn't mean that opinion is necessarily prevalent.

 

[Olive]

Keep in mind, I'm 33, and mostly game with couples - men and *gasp* women.

So by 10 minutes into a combat, the ladies are getting restless, on the whole, and would rather go back to journeying and citytalk.

where as I also play with women, and our gaming group age runs from 25 to about 30.

And the women are as much about the combat as the guys. I'm pretty sure that a sneak attack is Abbie's favourite part fo the game.

 

[Nail]

Hack, hack, hack!

Social interaction -
PC: Where can we hack?
NPC: Over there.
PC: thanks...

Hack, hack, hack!

Wow, is that funny. Excellent. I'm sharing that with my players next game.

I voted (combat heavy, as that's where much of the "die rolling" takes place. Yep, there are RP dice rolling too, but combat edges it out.

 

[kengar]

Although I won't step within a 10 foot pole's reach of a dungeon. That, to me, is trite, cliche and tres boring. But I've been dubbed the latte set of d20 gamers before, so that doesn't mean that opinion is necessarily prevalent.

But is that the SOY latte set, JD?

 

[TalonComics]

I guess it depends on why you're playing a RPG. For me it's about creating a character with motivations and personality and then seeing how that character reacts to the situations around them. Combat is well and good but that's not why I play RPGs. I know I would get bored if all D&D ended up being was combat after combat.

~D

 

[Gothmog]

I agree reapersaurus, combat does tend to be over-emphasized in D&D, mosty due to the fact that it carries few repurcussions. I mean, you whack a baddie with a sword, shave some hps off, and keep up the process until he drops. Under the core rules, there is no danger of permanent damage, maiming, or loss to the character- its all pretty much reversible with high enough powered spells. In addition, most DMs treat combat at not only necessary, but acceptable in almost any situation, and sometimes even discourage non-violent problem resolution. When there are no costs associated with fighting, it tends to dominate the game at the expense of role-playing or skill use.

Having said that, its more important to have solid combat rules since few gamers are familiar with the reality of battle. You can much more easily role-play through a situation discussing treaties with a baron than how you are going to go about planning the next six maneuvers needed to draw an orc's gaurd away to strike a killing blow. It all really depends on how the DM and players protray the world I suppose: if the world is simple with few consequences, combat is the order of the day. In a more realistic game, combat tends to be de-emphasized for the more subtle aspects of role-playing.

 

[maddman75]

Keep in mind, I'm 33, and mostly game with couples - men and *gasp* women.

So by 10 minutes into a combat, the ladies are getting restless, on the whole, and would rather go back to journeying and citytalk.

Careful, or you'll start a flame war . In my group the ladies are the biggest twink powergamers who openly admit "if we aren't killing something I don't really pay attention."

 

[maddman75]

Well there's yer problem right there. Stop gaming with women and sissies.


Wulf

Who are you to preach - I have it on good authority that you not only game with women, but at least one that plays a perfumed fop!

 

[Desdichado]

But is that the SOY latte set, JD?

I'm pretty sure that the soy latte set only plays d20 under duress, extoling the virtues of some other system the whole time!