D&D 5E Are DMs getting lazy?

[Hussar]

Keep in mind that a lazy DM in, say, 1981, would have had access to the following, beyond the core books (and basic and expert D&D rules)

B1 In Search of the Unknown
D1-2 Descent into the Depths of the Earth
D3 Vault of the Drow
S1 Tomb of Horrors
G1-2-3 Against the Giants
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands
S2 White Plume Mountain
T1 The Village of Hommlet
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
X1 The Isle of Dread
A1–4 Slavers Series
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill
U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh
X2 Castle Amber

PLUS Deities and Demigods, the Fiend Folio, the World of Greyhawk Folio,
PLUS PLUS Monthly issues of Dragon, which had been in print since 1976 (since 75 as the strategic review)
ADD, from even earlier, licensed Judges Guild products.

They may have been industrious with their games, but DMs also still had some help.

True, but, this is what three YEARS into the life cycle of 1e. How much of that would have been available in after the PHB was released? I mean, after 5 months of 5e, you will have two complete 15 level adventure paths. That's about the equivalent of 16 modules. Plus web enhancements (now coming monthly), plus various other odds and sods. Let's see where we are in 2017 before we make this same comparison.

 

[Primal]

Derren, I think you know life's a bit more hectic these days than in the '70s and '80s. As you said, we have a lot more immersive options for what to do with our spare time, plus a thousand digital gadgets that didn't exist back then (and I couldn't even have dream of), BUT, working life has changed, too. It's much, much more demanding these days than it was 30-40 years ago. I feel like I'm multitasking all the time, and I'm kind of *expected* to be constantly juggling four or five things at the same time.

I had plenty of free time as a young man. I also didn't have a wife and family back then, and I never had to ask anyone's permission to write stuff or play RPGs. When I sat down to draw maps and write stuff, I could *FOCUS* on doing it. These days I can't. If I'm willing to stay up late, I might have an hour or two for myself each day. And even if I do, usually I just feel too tired to be creative -- usually too tired even to be play computer or video games.

So, I don't think I'm lazier than I used to be. I just don't have as much time or peace (and silence) as I used to have.

 

[Zaran]

I'd like to bring up that D&D always had many adventures in every edition.

So what if people want to buy more into 5e? Why should you even care? I'm happy you can do everything you need for your game. I don't have the time like I did when I was in high school. So get off my case.

 

[Derren]

If you look at the "how old are you" thread you'll find that most DMs are now in their 30s-40s, so you can probably figure out for yourself what exists now that didn't exist before.

Yet you find the same behaviour with todays youth. Too much to consume so only very few are willing to invest too much time in anything specific, thats why there is a demand for more and more premade stuff and even simpler rules.

 

[Zaukrie]

This thread is indeed boggling. Stating things about you and your experience, as if that means mine is the same, is just not factual. Judging people for wanting adventures? I just don't get it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I had plenty of free time as a young man. I also didn't have a wife and family back then, and I never had to ask anyone's permission to write stuff or play RPGs. When I sat down to draw maps and write stuff, I could *FOCUS* on doing it. These days I can't. If I'm willing to stay up late, I might have an hour or two for myself each day. And even if I do, usually I just feel too tired to be creative -- usually too tired even to be play computer or video games.

I'm tellin' ya man, if WotC can figure out how to give us more free time, they'd see a huge spike in sales! They should figure out how to design a better work week....

 

[Greg Benage]

I think DMs today are often too hard on themselves. I think this is related to a trend toward story- or plot-based games and away from location-based games. I've followed that trend over the course of 35 years of gaming, even leaving D&D for other games that I felt better supported that style of play, and I've increasingly come to think it's a mistake.

DM prep doesn't have to take a lot of time. Your players are eager to do most of the work for you, and in my experience it will be more memorable for them when they do most of the work for you. And frankly, most of the DMs I've experienced really should let the players do the work, because the DMs aren't very good at creating story-based games. This applies to the heavily plotted published adventures for 5e, as well: They aren't very good. Since I've started playing more online, especially, I can't count the number of DMs I've watched flailing away trying to run a good D&D campaign like an epic novel. Most just can't do it effectively, and I feel bad for them. Most could create a cool dungeon, though, and in a fraction of the time. And with a little luck, their players might have taken their adventures in that dungeon and turned them into an epic (if typically somewhat gonzo) story.

I hope more DMs and gaming groups will put the dungeon back in Dungeons & Dragons. The older I get, the less time I have, the more DMs I see fail at being an epic storyteller, the more I'm impressed with the dungeon's simple brilliance.

(All IMHO, YMMV, WWJD, etc.)

 

[Eric V]

Yet you find the same behaviour with todays youth. Too much to consume so only very few are willing to invest too much time in anything specific, thats why there is a demand for more and more premade stuff and even simpler rules.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do that you have a lot of contact with today's youth that you can legitly make this statement?

There are lots of non-young DMs here who want pre-made stuff...maybe there are people here who have demands on their time that you (or Reynard, or whomever) don't have?

The desire for faster-paced combat could be rooted in a narrative desire, not a hate-complexity one; my own group switched over from 4e for exactly that reason.

There are lots of reasons to want pre-made stuff. Maybe laziness is one of them, but I doubt it.

 

[Reynard]

I think DMs today are often too hard on themselves. I think this is related to a trend toward story- or plot-based games and away from location-based games. I've followed that trend over the course of 35 years of gaming, even leaving D&D for other games that I felt better supported that style of play, and I've increasingly come to think it's a mistake.

DM prep doesn't have to take a lot of time. Your players are eager to do most of the work for you, and in my experience it will be more memorable for them when they do most of the work for you. And frankly, most of the DMs I've experienced really should let the players do the work, because the DMs aren't very good at creating story-based games. This applies to the heavily plotted published adventures for 5e, as well: They aren't very good. Since I've started playing more online, especially, I can't count the number of DMs I've watched flailing away trying to run a good D&D campaign like an epic novel. Most just can't do it effectively, and I feel bad for them. Most could create a cool dungeon, though, and in a fraction of the time. And with a little luck, their players might have taken their adventures in that dungeon and turned them into an epic (if typically somewhat gonzo) story.

I hope more DMs and gaming groups will put the dungeon back in Dungeons & Dragons. The older I get, the less time I have, the more DMs I see fail at being an epic storyteller, the more I'm impressed with the dungeon's simple brilliance.

(All IMHO, YMMV, WWJD, etc.)

The rise of the Adventure Path is, IMO, one of the worst things to happen in the gaming space. Not the multiple-part adventure, mind you. We have had those forever. But this idea of a self contained campaign story in predetermined form, taking characters from level 1 to whatever in a closed, linear plot. It not only puts way too much emphasis on a predetermined long form story, which I do not think provides any real benefit to play and creates problems with things like character death and player turnover, but it also is too restrictive in style, tone and feel. A good campaign is episodic, it reacts to the PCs' actions and it allows for variation over the course of time. The best way to achieve these things is through a sandbox environment, IMO, but I have seen it successfully done with travelogue style campaigns and ones designed to emulate a TV show structure. In any case, while consistent threads and underlying continuity can go a long way toward creating a cohesive feeling campaign, an actual campaign level plot is stifling and restrictive.

That all said, I get why they are popular. What I do not understand is why with 5 E would rely exclusively on them, especially how good a mini sandbox they created with the Starter Set ( and it still boggles that Phandelver is not on the schedule in a standalone, expanded form, but that's another thread).

Anyway, I'm way off topic.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

My experience, and I don't believe I'm remotely unusual in this, is that true "sandbox"-style play, which is basically player-driven, is relatively rare, and kind of a niche interest. That the vast majority of DMs running D&D (and indeed most other RPGs) are in fact running fairly plot-oriented stuff, much of which might verge on the rail-road-y.

My players always claimed that they hated railroad campaigns and loved sandboxes but when it came to actually playing, they always felt lost and overwhelmed in sandbox campaigns and perfectly comfortable and happy in the most railroady campaigns.