Are ELADRIN attribute bonuses the MOST USELESS?

[NorthSaber]

I think you are forgetting some feats that require the other stat, but which ordinarily wouldn't be high enough for most classes. Eladrins also make some of the best multi-class characters.

This is true - I forgot all about the extra skill! This is actually really cool and always useful. A fighter can take Perception or Insight, any non-caster class can take Arcana (with a +2 racial bonus), any non-sneaky class can take Stealth or Thievery... In a small group an Eladrin can perform double-duty because of this.

We don't have an arcane caster (or cleric) in our group, so my Eladrin fighter took the multiclass feat for wizards (and gained Arcana as a trained skill), took Nature as the Eladrin skill (as we weren't going to have a ranger originally - and once we did, he took dungeoneering), and I'll take Ritual Caster soon, becoming our main "caster".

So yeah, a big plus!

 

[Hambot]

My GF plays solo. She is now a 2nd level Rogue with Jack of All Trades that has multiclassed into wizard for some blasting power. Ritual casting will come later.

Lets her cover all of a parties main strategic requrirements except for healing.

Eladrin is perfect for her. You can't look at the attribute boosts in isolation - its part of a package deal!

 

[erik_the_guy]

I agree with you that they get the worst ability bonuses. Dex and Int only affect one defense. The combination is only good for one class (wand wizard) and not even a very good one. They do get (in my opinion) the best encounter power of any race, so it balances out.

 

[Fedifensor]

Feats are why any stat modifier is a big thing. 13 dex and 15 dex are nice points to hit to open up some good feats. By spending 2 points in dex on a point buy a eladrin wizard will have a 15 dex at level 11. Arcane reach is all kinds of awesome at requires that 15 dex. a race without a bonus to dex would have to put 5 points into dex to do the same thing. That is kind of cool.

An Eladrin who spends 3 points to start with a 15 Dex can meet the Dex portion of Heavy Blade Mastery at Epic without further point expenditure, which can be really nice.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

I think you are also correct. I am currently playing an Eladrin two-bladed ranger and not only do I deal out the smack down but being able to teleport once an encounter lets me better able to do my "alpha strike" - teleport to boss bad guy, unleash with encounter power, then action point and unleash with daily power. Usually means end of boss bad guy. And quite fun too.

Not really on topic, but when my players try this, they just roll like crap and get mad at 4e, then the boss kicks them into the dirt.

 

[Bagpuss]

That's a much better point, but a canny player is going to choose a class that requires either INT or DEX and still get an advantage.

Me on the other hand, I'm insane and chose Fighter.

The designers clearly took this into account with the non-stat bonuses.

Like the Eladrin Soldier feat. An Eladrin is likely to be a +1 to hit and a plus +1 to damage behind Str based races, but with that feat they offset the damage penalty.

It's still a suboptimal choice, but it isn't crippling.

The free choice of an extra trained skill isn't to be sniffed at either, it is way more flexible than the human bonus skill.

 

[Gloombunny]

I agree with you that they get the worst ability bonuses. Dex and Int only affect one defense. The combination is only good for one class (wand wizard) and not even a very good one. They do get (in my opinion) the best encounter power of any race, so it balances out.

The overlapping defense complaint is nonsense. Eladrin get +1 to Will defense to make up for it, so they're not at all behind other races on defenses. Except humans, of course, but everyone is behind humans on defenses.

The extra Dexterity is handy to all wizards because of Arcane Reach. It's not as good as +2 Wisdom would be, certainly, but it's still a bonus that human wizards don't get.

 

[Seolfor]

Second, your math is wrong. It doesn't cost 11 points to go from 16 to 18. It costs 7.

No sir - your MATH is wrong. In my example the Eladrin is at 16 INT, so he only spent enough points to get to 14, then the +2 racial got him to 16.

The point-buy difference between 14 and 18 IS ELEVEN.

Anyhow - i think ive made my point. Eladrins are sub-optimal for almost every class/build, except Wand-Wizards and maybe Tactical-Spear Warlords. Two very niche, situational builds.

You can play a Dwarven Rogue for all i care - this IS D&D, Roleplaying is the focus - but that doesnt change the fact that Dwarves make sub-optimal (thats polite speak for S-H-I-T-T-Y) Rogues.

So ya, go ahead and play Eladrin Rogues, Rangers, Fighters etc. On sheer game mechanics and balance, you will never make an 'optimal' character - which isnt the end of the world. Its just a fact.

 

[Cadfan]

No sir - your MATH is wrong. In my example the Eladrin is at 16 INT, so he only spent enough points to get to 14, then the +2 racial got him to 16.

The point-buy difference between 14 and 18 IS ELEVEN.

Ooooh, I get it. I thought your argument was relevant, but mathematically flawed, and really it was mathematically correct but irrelevant.

So ya, go ahead and play Eladrin Rogues, Rangers, Fighters etc. On sheer game mechanics and balance, you will never make an 'optimal' character - which isnt the end of the world. Its just a fact.

No, its not.

Look, throw together some example characters. You'll swiftly see that you're wrong.

Eladrin Rogue:

Str 13
Con 13
Dex 16+2=18
Int 8+2=10
Wis 10
Cha 15

Halfling Rogue

Str 13
Con 13
Dex 16+2=18
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14+2=16

See that? If you hold everything equal, you end up with a difference of one point of charisma modifier. That is absolutely, totally trivial. Especially considering that the Eladrin still got the +1 will defense due to a class feature.

 

[Palladion]

To Seolfor's original post: Dragon #364 33, "Designing the Warforged" sidebar, "The fact that the warforged has bonuses to two abilities in the same defense category (Fortitude), like the eladrin (Reflex), is part of balancing the race's capabilities." (Staffan mentioned this earlier.)