Are monster types balanced?

[DragonLancer]

There is no such thing as absolute balance. I personally feel the current system is balanced *enough*

Agreed. CR's are the part of monsters and encounters that don't work 100% but you can easily tell if a give monster is suitable for your group simply by comparing stats.

 

[hexgrid]

I'm not following you. To advance an outsider, it increases by 1 CR for every 2 HD added. Fey CR increases at half that rate (1 CR for every 4 HD added).

Thats just for advancing them.

In determining ECL, outsider and fey HD are both worth one level adjustment.

 

[Knight Otu]

I'm not following you. To advance an outsider, it increases by 1 CR for every 2 HD added. Fey CR increases at half that rate (1 CR for every 4 HD added).

Which, right there, shows that the types aren't balanced against each other. But they really don't have to be unlike character races or character classes. Type is just a building block for monsters and races, just like abilities. You don't really ask if an elf's lowlight vision is balanced compared to a dwarf's stonecunning. Rather, you look at the whole package.
There are of course points where the relative balance of creature types can come into play, such as templates that grant those types and their benefits. But those tend to grant the more powerful types, and are presumably balanced with that in mind.

 

[Knight Otu]

Thats just for advancing them.

In determining ECL, outsider and fey HD are both worth one level adjustment.

Before the acid test invariably reduces that. Namely, the difference between outsider Hit Dice and fey Hit Dice is (at least in good case scenarios) folded into the level adjustment.

 

[Shemeska]

Why should they be balanced in the first place? Some are simply more powerful than others.

I don't really understand the concern.

 

[Shade]

Why should they be balanced in the first place? Some are simply more powerful than others.

I don't really understand the concern.

Nor do I. As long as they are balanced vs. the party that faces them, what's the issue?

 

[Shade]

Which, right there, shows that the types aren't balanced against each other. But they really don't have to be unlike character races or character classes. Type is just a building block for monsters and races, just like abilities. You don't really ask if an elf's lowlight vision is balanced compared to a dwarf's stonecunning. Rather, you look at the whole package.
There are of course points where the relative balance of creature types can come into play, such as templates that grant those types and their benefits. But those tend to grant the more powerful types, and are presumably balanced with that in mind.

So true. IMHO, a dwarf is more powerful than 90% of the planetouched races which have a +1 LA.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Nor do I. As long as they are balanced vs. the party that faces them, what's the issue?

Well, that's the trick, isn't it?

I have no objection to throwing an ancient spell-using red dragon at a 5th level party. What I don't want is creating a CR 5 monster against a 5th level party and have it be too hard or easy. For one encounter that's no big deal (unless it is a "lieutenant" or "boss" monster). But let's say I'm doing something special, like having some kind of forgotten temple with plant guys. Now, if I'm running a critical-hit-weapon-heavy party I know that these plant guys are going to be tough because they're immune to crits. But that's when I'm wearing my DM hat. When I'm wearing my designer hat to think of the thing in the first place, I want to have a rough idea how butch these plant guys are.

 

[jmucchiello]

I'm not following you. To advance an outsider, it increases by 1 CR for every 2 HD added. Fey CR increases at half that rate (1 CR for every 4 HD added).

This just shows they are balanced by CR. They are not balanced by ECL.

And thus "monsters" are balanced for their intended purpose, as encounters against the party. They are not balanced for use as members of the party. And that is fine to me since that is not their intended purpose.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Why should they be balanced in the first place? Some are simply more powerful than others.

I don't really understand the concern.

All animals are equal.

Some are just more equal than others.