Are people still mad about . . .

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ProfessorCirno

Banned
Banned
Regarding confirmation bias, it's not that simple.

I don't doubt that many people looked at 4e already wanting to hate it and, lo and behold, they did. But there was also a large group that wanted to like 4e, and was still turned off by the marketing. Sure, some people wanted to be offended.

But I didn't want to be offended. I wasn't, either. But the marketing was dumb, and, yes, at times, insulting. I wasn't offended, and I certainly still don't "hate" them for it, but it was terribad marketing that insulted many of their own customers. And again, I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, but people say stupid things, and when they do say something stupid, you don't just shrug and go "Well, if you get insulted, it's your own fault."

Yes, we get it. Some of you loved the marketing. But that has absolutely no effect on those that didn't. Stop thinking and acting like you're the only ones with the "right" opinion.

Get over yourselves, goddamn.
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Eh I really don't care if you think they used such words or not. I recall being told my games must be unfun or not as fun as they could be..

To me, there is a huge difference between "Your games are not as much fun as they could be" and "your games suck".

I don't recall anyone at WOTC saying your games suck, and I don't think it's good to try and throw that meme against the wall and see if it sticks.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
To me, there is a huge difference between "Your games are not as much fun as they could be" and "your games suck".

I don't recall anyone at WOTC saying your games suck, and I don't think it's good to try and throw that meme against the wall and see if it sticks.

But not much difference between calling something "the antithesis of fun" and "your games suck".

It's amazing how some people simply refuse to accept that yes, some of the developer statements and the tone of many things in the marketing of 4e was insulting to the audience. Dismissing the possibility of dissent isn't going to make your favorite game go away; you shouldn't feel threatened by it, nor feel the need to ardently, virulently defend it.
 

Axolotl

First Post
But not much difference between calling something "the antithesis of fun" and "your games suck".
That as the phrase used to describe the elemental plane of Vacuum wasn't it? I remember being annoyed by that. Especially given how dull 4e planes were.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
But not much difference between calling something "the antithesis of fun" and "your games suck".

They also didn't call all of 3.x the antithesis of fun, or your game the antithesis of fun. Again, lets not throw false memes out there. Best to stick to what was actually said, and I believe what they said was that one single relatively small element of 3.x was the antithesis of fun - not the whole game, and not your game. They did not say all of 3.x or your game itself was the antithesis of fun, nor did they say your games suck. Those are the claims being made here, and they are false.

It's amazing how some people simply refuse to accept that yes, some of the developer statements and the tone of many things in the marketing of 4e was insulting to the audience.

It was interpreted as insulting to the audience by some, and not by others.

That's my point, and it's what I said.

Nothing amazing about my viewing what happened differently than how you view what happened. You view it as insulting, I didn't, and we both (I think) acknowledge that some felt one way and others felt another way and there were I am sure a hundred different reactions by different people.

Dismissing the possibility of dissent isn't going to make your favorite game go away; you shouldn't feel threatened by it, nor feel the need to ardently, virulently defend it.

I didn't dismiss the possibility of dissent. I acknowledge the dissent up front, that some people view it that way, and others didn't. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't feel the need to ardently and virulently defend anything, I am just chiming in the same as you with my opinions.

Nor do I in any way feel threatened by it. Again, please don't speak to what you think my emotions or feelings might be behind the screen. I didn't say I felt threatened, so don't put that on me and claim it's true.
 

Turtlejay

First Post
I'm still mad that my gaming group is/was acting like juveniles about the whole edition thing. Two guys hated it before it was out. Three of us tried to run the game as soon as we had the basic information to do so (pdfs of the preview characters, etc).

So, in the end, two guys hated the game, and two swore of 3.5 forever. What the hell to do? One left the group, the other grudgingly played 4e, and now, a year or so later, he still hates it. He bought in 100% to the 4e=wow argument (solos are bosses, the game is all grind, powers are cooldown, the whole bit). So much so that the newly reformed group was flirting with Pathfinder for awhile.

I hate that there has to be this gut reflex to like or hate something without giving it a shot. I'd be happy to play most any RPG that I've tried, because I tried and liked them. I don't understant the hate without a grounds to do so, and I'm sad that our gaming had to suffer for it.

Now, because of unrelated work reasons I play in a different 4e game, but I stil regret some of the drama and wish I could join up with my old friends and play, no matter WHAT the edition.

I hate that some people would like to make judgements about the type of person that I am because of the hobby that I have. While this applies to gaming in general (nerd, outcast, loner), it applies to edition in specific. I never played wow, and I am not an overactive teen. I play the game I play because that is what my friends play, and we enjoy it. Why judge someone for something silly...

That is just ignorance.

Jay
 


They also didn't call all of 3.x the antithesis of fun, or your game the antithesis of fun. Again, lets not throw false memes out there. Best to stick to what was actually said, and I believe what they said was that one single relatively small element of 3.x was the antithesis of fun - not the whole game, and not your game. They did not say all of 3.x or your game itself was the antithesis of fun, nor did they say your games suck. Those are the claims being made here, and they are false.


So if that one antithesis of fun. part is a big part of your play style or game then your game was just called the antithesis of fun as that horrible part that sucks the fun out of the game is a big part of your game. So is it a big jump that folks took it as "your game sucks"?
 

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
So if that one antithesis of fun. part is a big part of your play style or game then your game was just called the antithesis of fun as that horrible part that sucks the fun out of the game is a big part of your game. So is it a big jump that folks took it as "your game sucks"?

I hope you'll forgive me for asking this, but what exactly was it that was described as the antithesis of fun? It's been a long time, at this point and my google-fu wasn't up to the challenge. Is this the fairy-ring thing? I'd really like to know the source of all of these complaints, and I'm asking this with no snark whatsoever.

Color me confused by this whole thing, and also hoping that my 3x games were not the antithesis of fun. To be honest, at the end they were for me to run, but that's hardly the same thing.
 

That term if I recall was talking about the plans, salt and vaccum and a few others it touched on. Unfun was used a few times Skill checks and profession skill and out of combat skills being the ones I recall most. As I was told they were never used and an unfun drain on the game. So color my games unfun.

It's just they went out of the way to snip at 3.5 a game they just a month before were pushing books for as hard as they could, yet after 4e announcement it was garbage. Again they could have used some PR the dev team cost wotc and cost em alot, I think.

We shall not go into the amount of podcast blunders the FR dev team made.
 

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