Are people still mad about . . .

[haakon1]

Annoyed with ToEE

I'm pissed that the makers of the video game Temple of Elemental Evil aren't making a sequel/new game. I loved there combat system, but the game is laggy certain areas are corrupted (Nulb) to save in, etc.

Oh, big yes to this!

Even more annoyed that ToEE stopped working for me (and at least one other EnWorld user), and even when I bought the game a second time (thinking it might be a faulty disk), it still didn't help.

Edit: Also didn't fix it to download the official patches, nor the Circle of Eight patches, nor running it on Windows in emulator mode as if it were earlier versions, nor changing the graphics settings in various ways. Argh!

Also annoyed that when I tried it on my wife's new PC with Windows 7 cleanly installed, it still wouldn't work -- so maybe not a software problem, maybe just two sets of bad disks?

Even more annoyed that I finally the Read Me file last weekend, and discovered their help center was in the same city I live in (Woodinville, WA) but the phone number has been disconnected . . . along with the website being long gone but archived . . . still, one of these weekends, I will have to drive to the address and see if some help desk guy is lurking there, by some miracle!

 

[BryonD]

yet after 4e announcement it was garbage

They never called it garbage. Again, what's with you and Shemeska adding stuff that was never said in order to make your point?

See, right there is a good example.
Hunter in Darkness did not say they "called it garbage". He simply made a statement of his perception and you immediately amplified it into him "adding stuff that was never said". You are biased in your perception of his comments and it comes through in how you reflect back what he said.

If someone is a Planescape fan and perhaps not liking what they see so far in 4E mechanics, then a promo for 4E that talks about things they are ditching and using terms like "antithesis of fun" is easily going to get amplified into "They said my game is an antithesis of fun".

The main difference is that six months from now Hunter in Darkness isn't going to be trying to sell products to Mistwell and wondering why Mistwell is reluctant.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I'm mad that you're mad about that.

You're mad I tell you! MAD!

The Auld Grump

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

You're mad I tell you! MAD!

The Auld Grump

We have always known he was a bit touched in the head, but that's ok he still fits in.

 

[nedjer]

Worse.

The switchover is causing ENWorld to be a boring, boring place.

Wouldn't go quite that far and 100% for being committed to RPGs. It's just that a massive amount of time, some thought and some ill feeling, goes into going round in circles.

If the same time went on how 'blue sky' thinking on gameplay or working out how to get more players into the hobby . . .

 

[Turtlejay]

They don't like 4e.

That's really not a big deal.

If you lost your friendship over that, all I can say is, wow.

It's like every time I post you have to run in and crap all over it. Thanks for being consistent?

Without going into lots of boring personal details, the two guys split for a few reasons, but the straw that broke the camel's back was the change in editions. Nobody is angry or not friends with anyone anymore, but the gaming group was forever fundamentally altered.

Basically there is a year's worth of drama drama drama and I tried to seperate it down to what I felt was the germane parts.

Feel free to misinterpret this post, too. I'll not jump in to correct you again.

Jay

 

[ProfessorCirno]

It's like every time I post you have to run in and crap all over it. Thanks for being consistent?

Without going into lots of boring personal details, the two guys split for a few reasons, but the straw that broke the camel's back was the change in editions. Nobody is angry or not friends with anyone anymore, but the gaming group was forever fundamentally altered.

Basically there is a year's worth of drama drama drama and I tried to seperate it down to what I felt was the germane parts.

Feel free to misinterpret this post, too. I'll not jump in to correct you again.

Jay

Whoh whoh whoh, easy there.

I didn't know anything about pre-existing drama.

If your friends split because a bunch of crap was going on and then the edition war caused the final blow, then it sucks. Sorry to hear about it.

 

[Hussar]

The problem is, they were still making a flat negative judgement about someone else's game. They were telling you: "Do you use this skill? Then your game sucks."

Translation :If you use profession your game is unfun"
Translation 2: If you use profession , your game must suck"

No your right that statement can't be taken wrong or as a negative comment on someones playstyle at all.

That's only the translation if it is true in your game. Again, it's not "Using profession skills makes your game suck". That's not what's being said, although I think that's how it's being interpreted. What's being said is, "if your game hinges on a profession skill, then you are not having as much fun as you could be."

Is that really an out of line statement? Really? How many of your sessions HINGED on a profession or craft skill? Used by RAW. Out of all the years you played 3e, how many sessions, never mind adventures, how about just sessions, HINGED on a profession or craft skill check?

Even if the answer is not zero, it's probably close enough to see zero on a clear day.

Yet, despite the fact that the statement in all likelyhood does not apply to the overwhelming majority of gamers, it's suddenly offensive?

Funny thing if i said "Your 4e game is unfun or not as fun as it could be if your using X" I would get frothing fanboys just as bad if not worse dogpiling me

Really? I'm told all the time to use the DDI, that my game will be much better if I use the DDI. I've never once heard anyone at WOTC say anything like, "Well, this book isn't all that good, you really shouldn't use it."

Never mind that what they're saying isn't "your game isn't as fun as it could be", but, "If you belong to this TINY fragment of players who we believe no one actually is, then your game might not be as fun as it could be."

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Is that really an out of line statement? Really?

Yes.

It's still a judgment about other peoples' games.

Coming from you or I, it's rude and dismissive.

Coming from the people making your game, it's insulting.

That's what you seem to be missing. It doesn't matter if the statement is popular - it's still insulting.

 

[BryonD]

Re: People being insulted by the 4Ed ad campaign.

Its kind of like a verbal/linguistic version of mechanical resonance.

Each individual negative statement may have been minimally perturbing, but as each new one popped up, it reinforced the perturbations generated by previous statements.

Statement A gets me interested in the game.
Statement B gets me mildly miffed at a certain aspect of what has been revealed.
Statement C gets me a little annoyed at another aspect of the forthcoming design, but also makes me more negative at B.
Statement D is neutral.
Statement E is negative, and while mildly so, it amplifies my negative perceptions of statements C and B.

By the time statements X, Y, and Z rolls around (whatever their nature), the rhetorical oscillations caused by negative statements have reached a certain magnitude that renders the positives of the game almost...secondary.

All in all, we really don't need to recount each and every particular phrase or statement that annoyed us about the 4Ed rollout- we'll only annoy ourselves needlessly, and no matter how many we recount, we won't convince anyone that our perceptions were valid.

We saw things differently then, and we still do today. Let the details of the squabble rest.

I note that nobody seems willing to take this excellent post into account. Nitpicking individual items ignores the true big picture.