D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Sadras]

Any way my dissatisfaction with 5es comparative lack of tactical choices... regardless of positioning its really really not just grid that is a misrepresentation to be honest is probably off topic

I totally get that.
For myself, for 4e, I'd say it was presentation (uniform character sheet with power-"cards") and language which ties into a little of what Imaro mention upthread about how when looking at a grid a slide is a shift is a push kinda thing. Now Pemerton's post gave a detailed explaination about the differences which exist and that is all good but in the same manner where some 5e players view Dash (i.e. not as increased movement but as a 3.x's move action), the same way some 4e players viewed the slide the same as a push. Not technically correct in either 4e or 5e but it is enough to make the link = samey.

Hope I'm making sense.

 

[Garthanos]

I see. I had an idea once about Lesser Advantage (+2 bonus) and Lesser Disadvantage (-2)

That is the idea indeed

 

[Garthanos]

Not technically correct in either 4e or 5e but it is enough to make the link = samey.

The opposite occurs too technically identical things get seen as different. I point out all the extra attack characters have the same 4 ... at-will attacks and someone goes no they don't; Its functionally the same when a character feature enhances an everyman one or provides an enhanced version without mention of the everyman one. It is identical but one gets called samey the other not even noticed.

 

[Sadras]

The opposite occurs too technically identical things get seen as different. I point out all the extra attack characters have the same 4 ... at-will attacks and someone goes no they don't; Its functionally the same when a character feature enhances an everyman one or provides an enhanced version without mention of the everyman one. It is identical but one gets called samey the other not even noticed.

You mentioned that upthread. I can see how you can equate them although my immediate take on the 5e additional attacks was more a call back to previous editions (1e-3e)* rather than to the at-wills of 4e. But your take on it is interesting and I had not thought of it before.

*EDIT: You get them at certain levels based on design and proficiency similar to older editions.

 

[Imaro]

The opposite occurs too technically identical things get seen as different. I point out all the extra attack characters have the same 4 ... at-will attacks and someone goes no they don't; Its functionally the same when a character feature enhances an everyman one or provides an enhanced version without mention of the everyman one. It is identical but one gets called samey the other not even noticed.

Because they aren't billed in 5e as separate maneuvers... they are billed as a single generic maneuver anyone can use. Do you not see the difference there? In one instance we are comparing two different powers in the other you are comparing the same action with itself and claiming it's samey... with itself. You do realize 4e also has a basic melee attack and that it hasn't been brought up as an example of what I (and I assume others) am talking about ...

 

[Garthanos]

Because they aren't billed in 5e as separate maneuvers... they are billed as a single generic maneuver anyone can use.

Attacking along side grabbing isn't something anyone can use is it? just those with the class feature to enable that. Even if its billed that way... it requires a class feature to do that P R E S E N T A T I O N

 

[Imaro]

Attacking along side grabbing isn't something anyone can use is it? just those with the class feature to enable that. Even if its billed that way... it requires a class feature to do that P R E S E N T A T I O N

Ok let's start from square one... exactly what class ability are you speaking too?

 

[Garthanos]

Ok let's start from square one... exactly what class ability are you speaking too?

Extra strike its mentioned in Shove and Grapple both... it means my wizard cannot do it without taking a huge amounts of multi-classing... it means my bard doesnt get it till level 6 its not a common to everyone

 

[Garthanos]

4e anyone can grab period... hey look fighter who gets the maneuver can grab and strike.
5e anyone can grab and look if you have extra attack class feature you can grab and strike.

 

[Imaro]

Extra strike its mentioned in Shove and Grapple both... it means my wizard cannot do it without taking a huge amounts of multi-classing... it means my bard doesnt get it till level 6 its not a common to everyone

Again these are common maneuvers anyone can do with an attack action. Extra strike is the actual class feature which can be used in numerous ways and is never claimed to be a different ability across different classes. Yeah just like I thought...apples and cows comparison here...