Too complicated? ... Well, you weren't kidding when you called them casual. Still, it's the easiest prestige class in the world. "You know what your cleric does? Well, he still does all of that, only better. No, he doesn't do anything new, but you get to apply these beneficial modifiers to his class abilities." How long has this player been playing? I'm not trying to be mean or seem down on them, I'm just curious. I just can't imagine anyone playing a cleric of Pelor that wants to be good at turning and healing turning down Radiant Servant when it costs them nothing, and they gain everything.
Are prestige classes still viable?
- Thread starter Jhaelen
- Start date
The Iaijutsu Master will be one such prestige class. I've put in the Iaijutsu Strike as a precision damage mechanic in the samurai, but only up to 5d6 damage, so the prestige class allows that to expand up to 10d6 with a few feats and features useful for this specialist who strikes flat-footed targets.
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THIS!! Anything that customizes the various faiths so that they don't all resemble each other is a good thing. Domains, alternate cleric powers, etc. have all been used to good effect in my campaigns but if ever a setting or genre-element screamed for tailor-made (prestige) classes, it's fantasy religions.
Generally speaking, I'm a BIG proponent of magic-themed classes tied to a setting. Magical traditions should be one of a culture's defining traits. Paizo's done a great job at tantalizing us with the faiths and magical traditions of Golarion. From an arcane spellcaster perspective, cyphermages, practitioners of sin magic, bloatmages, etc. would be welcome additional prestige classes.... IF AND ONLY IF, the mechanical changes justify the prestige class.
I'm not a fan of prestige classes that aren't thematically tied to a setting. Pathfinders, Red Mantis Assassins, and Hellknights = good prestige class candidates. Generic prestige classes...not so much.
If the quote read, "poorly designed Prestige Classes", I'd wholeheartedly agree. However, when used for their original purpose of fleshing out a campaign setting/world, I think Prestige Classes are one of the best elements of 3e.
The fact that Paizo is aware of the PrCl power & bloat issue combined with all of the Pathfinder RPG content I have thus far fills me with confidence that if anyone can do Prestige Classes well, it's Paizo.
Will
First Post
The problem was two very different ideas about balancing Prestige Classes.
The first was 'if it's hard to get into, the rewards should be great!'
The second was 'it should be balanced with core classes, but give different options.'
The first idea was TERRIBLE, and lead to absurd stupid sh* like the Radiant Servant of Pelor. And that wasn't even 3pp. (If anyone disagrees and wants more explanation of why it's terrible, poke me)
The second made a lot more sense, but balance is tricky and there was a lot of fail.
I mean, you even have people completely misunderstand the rules and try to make PrC (abjurant champion, with it's 'bonus to abjuration spells, like mage armor')
I think the proper place of PrCs are flavorful interesting options with _sensible_ prerequisites that offer a reasonably wide range of entry points and provide distinctive new twists on classes, balanced with core classes.
I personally found the revamp of core PrCs in PF a little weak, but the ones I found a little weak in PF were ones I found a little weak in 3.5 already. With one exception -- until PF, the only way I'd ever consider taking Dragon Disciple was in a gestalt game. Now, though... nice!
The first was 'if it's hard to get into, the rewards should be great!'
The second was 'it should be balanced with core classes, but give different options.'
The first idea was TERRIBLE, and lead to absurd stupid sh* like the Radiant Servant of Pelor. And that wasn't even 3pp. (If anyone disagrees and wants more explanation of why it's terrible, poke me)
The second made a lot more sense, but balance is tricky and there was a lot of fail.
I mean, you even have people completely misunderstand the rules and try to make PrC (abjurant champion, with it's 'bonus to abjuration spells, like mage armor')
I think the proper place of PrCs are flavorful interesting options with _sensible_ prerequisites that offer a reasonably wide range of entry points and provide distinctive new twists on classes, balanced with core classes.
I personally found the revamp of core PrCs in PF a little weak, but the ones I found a little weak in PF were ones I found a little weak in 3.5 already. With one exception -- until PF, the only way I'd ever consider taking Dragon Disciple was in a gestalt game. Now, though... nice!
He's not alone having players like that. I did as well. Several of mine just wanted to play. They didn't want to min-max, they didn't want prestige classes....heck, they didn't multiclass....they just wanted to roleplay.
Then there were the optimizers. In the end, we ditched several of them from the group, as they reduced the interest level of everyone else by trying to handwaive roleplaying, and always working on the perfect "build". They just didn't mesh well.
As the DM of the group, I found the more casual guys way more fun. They came, they took part, they didn't feel they had to be the center of attention and the biggest bad boy on the block...they just wanted to have fun.
Everyone's got their preferences....but I don't think there's anything wrong with the casual gamer, or not wanting to optimize. Personally, I'll use prestige classes....but usually because I find something interesting in one...not necessarily because I want "phenomenal cosmic power".
Banshee
Yeah, well, he joined our group after we'd been playing for about two years. This was at a time when we had trouble getting enough players together for a game.
D&D isn't his favorite game and part of the reason he joined probably was because his wife was also playing in my group. His first character had been a barbarian which seemed to fit his preferences pretty well. Then he had tried a dragon shaman which he didn't like a lot (he found the auras too confusing...), and before the cleric it had been a soulknife (which his wife had recommended to him).
Basically, he's happiest when he can just charge a monster and bash away. As a person he's a bit short-tempered and impatient but it has improved over time.
The reason he rolled up a cleric was because the group was currently lacking in the healing department. He still prefers to be up-front where the action is but he gets lots of tactical advice and help from everyone during play, so he's doing okay for now.
MerrikCale
First Post
agreed. Like if you wanted a really good lyncanthrope hunter. As you progress in levels of a PrC for that, you wouldn't be quite as good as a similar leveled ranger or fighter or whatnot, but, man, you can kick werewolf booty
