Are Psionics underpowered?

[jgsugden]

You know the old saying ... "April New Books bring May New Balance."

I have a feeling we'll see a lot of changes to psionics when the 3.5 book comes out in April. If you're going to be in a long campaign, I'd feel comfortable starting a psionic character now and gambling that all the 'problems' will be addressed within a few months.

 

[Nightfall]

Only if you're not an SL Psion. Since there Psionics are different...and you can see the power range on Psionics just go up from there.

 

[Deset Gled]

Though psions may be weak as a straight class, I find they are quite nice for multiclassing if you want a blend of about 75% fighter / 25% caster. A few levels of psion can work out a lot nicer than a few levels of wizard or sorcerer.

Of course, there are now a lot of presitge classes and alternate classes to make multiclassing with casters better. YMMV

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I don't know about Psions but I know there is nothing wrong with Psychic Warriors.

Between ectoplasmic armor, grafted weapon, claws of the vampire, and the iron body equivalent spell (which was very poorly converted to 3.5 on WTOC site) they can really disk damage.

 

[Spatzimaus]

To expand on FrankTrollman's list:

4> Psions and Psychic Warriors have no splatbook, and most third-party sourcebooks don't add anything new for them either. Therefore, if you play one, you have to convince your DM to allow either Mind's Eye (WotC website) or If Thoughts Could Kill or Mindscapes (third-party). Preferably all of the above.
If you don't do this, you'll really be hurting.
5> The whole "psionic combat mode" thing tends to be more of a drawback than an advantage, unless you use the alternate rules in Mindscapes.
6> Psionic damage powers suck. Whitefire does about 1/3 the damage of Fireball once you get to 10th caster level, with the two the same in every other way. Part of this is the scaling issue, part is that psionics just isn't designed for area spells; it's mostly single-target stuff. On the other hand, their nondamaging stuff can often be slightly better than what a Sorcerer would get.
7> Their DC uses 1d20+ instead of 10+. Overall, randomness slightly hurts the PCs since it makes the magic even less dependable, but this is a minor flavor thing.

On the other hand, Psions get:
1> No arcane failure issues; armor up as much as you want.
2> Hold and Silence don't do squat against you, and you don't need any material components (expensive or otherwise). The lack of expensive components turns some good spells (Forcecage) into GREAT powers (Mass Cocoon).
3> 2 extra skill points per level, with skill lists that actually mean something.
4> The ability to put a lot of points into the "useful" physical stats and still have good spellcasting ability.
5> Their spell list includes an interesting mix of Wizard, Cleric, and unique powers. Some buffs (many self-only), some divinations, and a bunch of utility stuff.
6> Psicrystals are just inherently cooler than a ferret, especially if you add the Improved Psicrystal feat from Mind's Eye. Ditto for tattoos versus scrolls.
7> Access to the Psionic feats, like Speed of Thought and Inertial Armor. For a straight Psion these don't mean as much (although I highly recommend taking Speed of Thought once no matter what), but for a multiclasser it can be huge.

Anyway, the point is that Psions come off as marginally weak without outside material, but part of that is that their advantages aren't obvious ones. On the other hand, they're GREAT for multiclassing, since you can armor up and don't need to take a huge stat/skill point hit.

Psychic Warriors are already a pretty strong class as is.

 

[DanMcS]

7> Their DC uses 1d20+ instead of 10+. Overall, randomness slightly hurts the PCs since it makes the magic even less dependable, but this is a minor flavor thing.

This has actually been killing our party's psion; spend three points to do a 2nd level power, roll d20: 6. Save DC 10.
Next round: roll a 5.
Round after that: a 4.
Round after that: a 2. That was the worst sequence of rolls possible, pretty much.

He gets burned by the low DC rolls way more often than he gets helped by a high DC roll. It's kind of sadistic to sit there and chuckle as he busts out his sweet 2nd level power and it ends up doing jack.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

This has actually been killing our party's psion; spend three points to do a 2nd level power, roll d20: 6. Save DC 10.
Next round: roll a 5.
Round after that: a 4.
Round after that: a 2. That was the worst sequence of rolls possible, pretty much.

He gets burned by the low DC rolls way more often than he gets helped by a high DC roll. It's kind of sadistic to sit there and chuckle as he busts out his sweet 2nd level power and it ends up doing jack.

The randomness is definitely a mark against Psions. While it is true you may get lucky and hammer a BBEG in their save strong suit, that is usually a rare act of desperation. You will spend more of your time hitting opponents with CR<={your level} in their weak suit. That should give you an ballpark 80% efficacy. Roll high on the d20 and you get an 15% boost. Roll low and you may get an 75% penalty.

I think it is a general weakness in the D&D system to have so many null effects on a successful save. It makes sense if you prefer the mass combat style of play, but it is more satisfying as a player to let the nicks lands IMO.

 

[reiella]

[ DIsclaimer: Assume 3.0 references here ]
Fission... Psychofeedback... Disintegrate... Chain Power

IS EVIL.

The MAD is a problem, as most of the 'vital utility' spells are in a mix of different disciplines. It's almost a given that you must have at least that 12 in strength, or else you're not getting animal affinity, which lets you get those different stat boosts. There's also the issue that if you have any stat particularly low (Sans Constitution) you become Victim Bait to Psionic Combat. If your DM makes use of Psionic Combat, you're in trouble most anyway, but a low stat makes even casual/rare psionic combat almost ensure your death/incapitation.

About Mind Blast, it is obtainable at first, usable at 3rd (if you have decent stats and/or burn a feat on Inner Strength), but also pretty much drains you of all your magical power for the day. Boom-Stick power is strong, but also at the same time 'not good'. If you're comparing it to 3rd edition, compare it against Hold Monster (a 5th level spell that is a bit more effective against a single target). The mechanics for psionic combat make them extremely hit or miss. The other fear is of the Area of Effect, a spellcaster does not oft want to be running point and the area of effect can be a detriment to actual repeative use.

Psychic Warriors are well off, they compare nicely against Cleric (Which means they may well be overpowered ). Some of the psion subclasses are well off, some aren't. They get nice skill points (4+) and at the epic stages they get 'free powers known' similiar to a wizard. The psion does make for some powerful combinations, but the same is true for most supplements unforunately .

 

[Telperion]

I'm really hoping that WotC does a good job on the Psi 3.5 book, or I might just trash the lot of them out of my games. It's fairly easy to do with Scarred Lands, since psionics isn't a major issue there anyhow. Although I must say that they add a certain "fear factor" into any combat.

Image a truly weird looking energy blast you cannot detect. It just appears, and doesn't leave an aura like your regular magic does. Aside from a few exceptions there's hardly any magical protection to be had. And someone really had a good day when they did the Psi HB Feats section. Some very good stuff in there .

So, while a psion is something I wouldn't touch as it is, they do make a nice "boogey-man" into a world that is otherwise fairly full of magic and mysteries that are waiting to be solved.

BTW: I actually had a Psychic Warrior in a game once. It's a shame the player wasn't up to the task of playing the character. Could have been very nice.

 

[James McMurray]

I'm running a psion in a game right now and I just hit 5th level. Things are working out pretty well so far. I'm mainly focusing on astral constructs, and if the opponent flies I tend to do more damage than anyone else but the archer (and I'm on par with him). Against multiple foes I can fill the area with obstacles, and the less psionically knowledgeable creatures may even waste attacks trying to take out constructs.

We allow some of the stuff from Mind's Eye, but nowhere near all of it. I'm working my way towards the constructor PrC. We've had to modify it a bit, but one of the things we added to it is the ability to manifest AC powers as a standard action instead of full round. We took away the ability to create tons of littler constructs for free when creating the bigger ones though. It was just too much.

Overall I've had a good time. Constructs plus Finger of Fire have been my primary damage resources. Empathic Transfer and Lesser Body Adjustment have let me stand in as a second-rate healer when necessary, which has been good.