D&D 5E Are ranged attacks too good in 5e?

[ECMO3]

What tools does 5e offer to improve OAs?

Sentinel and PAM feats are two big ones that work well with strength builds (although PAM is confining). Also several of the battlemaster maneuvers.

 

[ECMO3]

I would not go 20/20...

but a barbarian or ranger can well afford going 20/14, because both use medium armor. In the case of the ranger you probably can't easily afford going strength because you also need Con and Wis...
Except when you aim for a more defensive build without a fast 20, rather concentrating on taking feats like resilient con and combat casting.
Maybe as a Variant Human ranger you could go
16/14/14/8/14/8 and resilient constitution.

You don't really need con any higher than a 12 on a Ranger IME. Wisdom is more important and with VH I would try to take a half-feat (telekenetic, gemdragon??) and bump that to 16 at level 1. 16/14/12/8/16/8

That would be killer for a Gloom stalker-Bear totem

I did not know combat casting was a feat? Do you mean Warcaster maybe? Not real useful on a Barbarian multiclass because it conflicts with Rage.

 

[FrogReaver]

What tools does 5e offer to improve OAs?

That's a long list. Basically anything that enhances damage or accuracy of an attack. Then there's also things like sentinel that stop movement. Or warcaster + booming blade that does absurd damage on a hit if the enemy moves away.

As an example, a Hunter Ranger with collosus slayer, hunters mark and dueling fighting style can do 1d8+7+1d8+1d6 = (19.5 damage) on a hit. That's a strong OA even going into tier 3 to make enemies respect you.

Rogues with sneak attack of course are also strong with OA's.

Barbarians with great weapons also do respectable damage 2d6+5+3 = (16 damage) on an OA hit.

Of course Battlemasters can cause effects like Trip Attack Prone or Goading attack disadvantage or Manuevering attack which can all change the calculus of whether the enemy wants to go ahead with trying to move away from you and attack your ally after he already took the OA. All these manuevers also add damage.

Then of course there's shadow blade and spirit shroud, both of which scale very well (Warlocks and baldesingers come to mind here).

Paladin's can smite on OA's (and later get improved divine smite), which can also factor into whether enemies are going to consider leaving your threat if you do this often and they have experienced it or see it. You may consider it a win that the enemy is attacking your 20 AC paladin instead of your 15 AC wizard and decide you don't even need to smite as long as that's the case.

*These abilities can be mutliclassed for as well.
*Magical weapons can further increase these numbers.

 

[ECMO3]

A javelin throw is a delay of game which slows your closing to the next enemy and is much less effective than your multi attacks this is why having charge be a base maneuver helps by doubling the melee combatants ability to become in threatening reach

I have played with the Charger feat and found it ok but not great. I don't find many people that take it though.

I think throwing a Javelin is a great idea, you give up multiattack but it is still an attack and probably better than dashing unless the enemies far enough away it is going to take two turns.

There is also a flip side to ranged attacks though which are constantly dealing with cover or prone enemies. If your enemies have ranged weapons and are behind a battlement or something they can disable attacks on your turn completely by popping up, shooting their bow and then ducking back behind the wall. You need to use a ready action to target them and that also kills the extra attack.

 

[FrogReaver]

A ranged combatant also does not have to move to get to the next enemy after downing one it can mean a full round of zero offense just moving for the str/melee combatant. A javelin throw is a delay of game which slows your closing to the next enemy and is much less effective than your multi attacks this is why having charge be a base maneuver helps by doubling the melee combatants ability to become in threatening reach ... if you could throw the javelin at the end of the charge for boosted effect even better.

A ranged character that has an enemy engage him in melee is also left attacking at disadvantage or taking OA's (barring a few particular abilities). This situation and a melee one needing to move more than his movement to get to the next enemy should roughly cancel each other out.

 

[FrogReaver]

The functional frequency of being swallowed by the sandworm seems low.

That's not a benefit I would ever cite.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

A difference of 5 does not make you go from first to last... most of the time at least. Also a difference of 5 only allows you to shift your initiative to a better position in 25% of all combats.

A difference of 5 isn't going to mean that you hit all your attacks that you would have otherwise have missed either.
I'm unsure what the point you're making is? That +5 on a D20 roll isn't automatically going to win? Has anyone suggested it would?
It is always beneficial to go first rather than last in combat. Dex improves your chance to do so.

It might result in a round of extra attacks. While this is good in a combat against mooks, if you can throw a fireball, the actual impact of a fighter is relative minor. In the best case of a level 20 fighter this is 8 more attacks which is somewhat ok.
A wizard can have that impact with a fireball at level 5 and only if the fighter does not fo in first and stands in the way...

We are aware that Fighter capabilities cannot compete against Wizard ones. Yes, if the wizard can throw a fireball, the impact of a fighter is relatively minor. There are a number of threads on this issue already however, and I'm not sure if sidetracking this one will be constructive.

We have to hope that the fighter may be able to do something useful with their action. Maybe the fireball damage isn't quite enough to kill the mooks, and so the damage the fighter did initially means that some die where they wouldn't have. Maybe the fighter's movement into in front of the wizard to defend them meant that the mooks couldn't just rush in and shank the caster.

 

[FrogReaver]

A difference of 5 isn't going to mean that you hit all your attacks that you would have otherwise have missed either.
I'm unsure what the point you're making is? That +5 on a D20 roll isn't automatically going to win? Has anyone suggested it would?
It is always beneficial to go first rather than last in combat. Dex improves your chance to do so.

I don't think always is true there. It depends on your parties capabilities, their buffs etc. You may very well want to go before the enemy but after the bless cleric. In which case going 2nd may be preferred.

I don't find melee characters need to worry as much about initiative. Oftentimes the enemies won't even be at them and while going first may be better than going last, going last may be better than falling into the middle of the initiative.

We have to hope that the fighter may be able to do something useful with their action. Maybe the fireball damage isn't quite enough to kill the mooks, and so the damage the fighter did initially means that some die where they wouldn't have. Maybe the fighter's movement into in front of the wizard to defend them meant that the mooks couldn't just rush in and shank the caster.

A decent wizard with mage armor and shield will likely have more AC on a given turn than a fighter (most fighters don't use shield IME). Wizard still is squishy because of the low hp pool.

 

[Garthanos]

I have played with the Charger feat and found it ok but not great. I don't find many people that take it though.

yup as a feat it sucks mathematics as an everyman ability ( with maneuver and feats being actual buffs of it that can no longer be true)

I think throwing a Javelin is a great idea, you give up multiattack but it is still an attack and probably better than dashing unless the enemies far enough away it is going to take two turns.

That time in rounds to get there is halved with a classic charge

 

[FrogReaver]

That time in rounds to get there is halved with a classic charge

Alot depends here.
Is it a flying enemy? Throw the Javelin!
Is it an enemy with only melee attacks? Throw the javelin and make it come to you. Maybe stay 30ft in front of the rest of the party just so you are prime target when it arrives.
Is it a ranged enemy, dash into it's face as fast as possible.

Different tactics work best in different circumstances.