Are shuriken considered light weapons?

[SoulStorm]

I'm wondering if the Swashbucklers insightful strike will work with shuriken.

Thanks,

 

[Witness]

No, shurikens are thrown ranged weapons. Ranged weapons aren't clasified the same way melee weapons are so their is no such thing as a 'light' ranged weapon.

 

[SoulStorm]

If you're correct, and I'm not certain you are or not, this creates an odd occurance. A dagger is a light weapon, therefore it would work with the Swashbucklers insightful strike whether or not it was thrown. My interpretation, since the insightful strike ability doesn't state that it only applies to melee weapons. Yet, a shuriken wouldn't work with insightful strike because it is a ranged weapon. My question is, why not? The definition for a light weapon does not specify that the weapon must be a melee weapon. Aside from the weapon tables that break down weapons by type, what evidence is there that a ranged weapon can't also be a light weapon?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The definition for a light weapon does not specify that the weapon must be a melee weapon.

Yeah, it does.

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.

Edit - you might be thinking of the 3E definition of "Light weapon", which didn't reference melee or ranged, but the 3.5 definition is different.

-Hyp.

 

[SoulStorm]

I was kind of hoping for something a little more concrete. Ok, let's try this.

We all know that we can use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats with thrown weapons now, correct?

If I have a character with the Two-Weapon fighting feat throwing daggers, what are his penalties?

If the same character throws shuriken (assume the character is proficient) what are his penalties?

Thanks,

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was kind of hoping for something a little more concrete.

More concrete than "The light, one-handed, and two-handed designations tell you how much effort it takes to wield a melee weapon"?

If I have a character with the Two-Weapon fighting feat throwing daggers, what are his penalties?

If the same character throws shuriken (assume the character is proficient) what are his penalties?

-4/-4. A dagger used as a melee weapon is Light. A dagger or shuriken used as a ranged weapon can't be Light, since that designation in 3.5 only applies to melee weapons, so you don't benefit from the "off-hand weapon is light" penalty reduction.

Interestingly, in 3E, the penalty would be the same, but for the opposite reason; you couldn't benefit from the Two-Weapon Fighting feat with a thrown dagger or shuriken, but they were considered Light weapons in 3E. So you still end up with -4/-4.

-Hyp.

 

[SoulStorm]

Thanks, That helped a lot. Since nobody seems to be challenging you I'm going to assume you're correct.

Do you think it should work this way Hypersmurf? Seems like throwers are all downside and no upside.

 

[Camarath]

-4/-4. A dagger used as a melee weapon is Light. A dagger or shuriken used as a ranged weapon can't be Light, since that designation in 3.5 only applies to melee weapons, so you don't benefit from the "off-hand weapon is light" penalty reduction.

Hypersmurf, if thrown weapons can not be considered light wile being thrown why do the rules state that the shuriken is treated as a light weapon when thrown?

From SRD under TWF

Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.

 

[SoulStorm]

Camarath, you rock!!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hypersmurf, if thrown weapons can not be considered light wile being thrown why do the rules state that the shuriken is treated as a light weapon when thrown?

Oops - there you go then.

That would make daggers -2/-2 as well, then.

-Hyp.