Though I am skeptical of skill boosting items, this point is clearly moot. A +1 sword supersedes Weapon Focus, a +1 bow supersedes Point-Blank Shot whilst in use, a Belt of Giant Strength +4 outdoes Weapon Specialisation and a Headband of Intellect +4 outshines Spell Focus. The argument for banning magical items because they outstrip those who increase skills 'organically' is clearly invalid if one were to investigate this line of thought in the broader context.
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Are +skill items overpowered?
- Thread starter Mordeth
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Though I am skeptical of skill boosting items, this point is clearly moot. A +1 sword supersedes Weapon Focus, a +1 bow supersedes Point-Blank Shot whilst in use, a Belt of Giant Strength +4 outdoes Weapon Specialisation and a Headband of Intellect +4 outshines Spell Focus. The argument for banning magical items because they outstrip those who increase skills 'organically' is clearly invalid if one were to investigate this line of thought in the broader context.
No kidding?
I'm aware of the powers of permission. I don't need to have it explained.
However, I feel that the guidelines, as they are written today, and pertaining to Epic Skill boosting Items, are too far gone to be any use at all.
You are comparing the magic items to feats, which is clearly inappropriate, IMO. Feats are more or less balanced against each other.
A +5 sword in No Way eclipses the high-level nonepic Fighter's ability to deal damage.
Placing a belt of giant strength on a non-fighter-type character is still unlikely to cause the fighter types to feel eclipsed.
At present, the GUIDELINES allow the creation of bonus items that will EASILY eclipse the rogue, whose forté is supposed to be the amount of skills (s)he has.
Nah, I don't have a problem with anything of the sort.
I'd just be much happier with stricter guidelines.
I detest the fact that the guidelines limit non-epic items bonus at +30 because of one ring. (I'd be happier with +10-+15). No item in the DMG other than the aforementioned ring grants higher than +15 bonus.
I feel that the skill items in the DMG are too cheap. So I have gone through the DMG, altered the prices, and informed the players. Before they have created anything.
But I don't like the way they are handled, in the DMG and particularly not in the ELH.
IMHO, the skill items ARE overpowered. At least when you consider the price/availablity as listed in the DMG. 2 +10 skill items are as cheap as a +1 weapon. +10 to a skill totally eclipses the character who has trained in that skill, when it becomes available.
BTW, Petrosian, please explain why you think that allowing custom skill items up to say +10 would be a problem due to the skills being of unequal import?
"BTW, Petrosian, please explain why you think that allowing custom skill items up to say +10 would be a problem due to the skills being of unequal import?"
It might not be, but it could be.
As with ALL cstom items, a Gm who follows the guidelines as if they were rules without a vet on the price is going to find trouble.
If he assumes all skills are of the same worth, then he will have a fairly easy chance to run into trouble as in most cases some skills have a bigger impact than others.
The ring of stealth +10 move silent is probably going to be worth more than the ring of knowledge nobility and both are probably going to be of less worth than the ring of Use magic device. (These values will be subject to the campaign... in some game the ring of knowledge nobility might be the mot powerful.)
The balance between those items will stem from the circumstances the Gm provides that need them.
If he is not careful, as with ANY custom item, problems can occur.
BTW... i don't have such a frothing problem with the "+30 limit" for one simple reason... since the creation of ANY custom items has to go thru me, i can simply say "no."
If they had published a long list of official +30 rings in the DMG erratta, I would have a problem with that.
All +30 max means is you can, IF you think its OK, allow them into your game. (Which makes it frankly a waste of text. I really do not need them limiting my custom items.)
It might not be, but it could be.
As with ALL cstom items, a Gm who follows the guidelines as if they were rules without a vet on the price is going to find trouble.
If he assumes all skills are of the same worth, then he will have a fairly easy chance to run into trouble as in most cases some skills have a bigger impact than others.
The ring of stealth +10 move silent is probably going to be worth more than the ring of knowledge nobility and both are probably going to be of less worth than the ring of Use magic device. (These values will be subject to the campaign... in some game the ring of knowledge nobility might be the mot powerful.)
The balance between those items will stem from the circumstances the Gm provides that need them.
If he is not careful, as with ANY custom item, problems can occur.
BTW... i don't have such a frothing problem with the "+30 limit" for one simple reason... since the creation of ANY custom items has to go thru me, i can simply say "no."
If they had published a long list of official +30 rings in the DMG erratta, I would have a problem with that.
All +30 max means is you can, IF you think its OK, allow them into your game. (Which makes it frankly a waste of text. I really do not need them limiting my custom items.)
Victim
First Post
Al said:
The problem is that skill checks are based on only on the skill check result and the DC. With a +30 item, most DCs are going to be cake. That one item confers instant dominance in the area.
Combat, however, has a bunch of factors involved. You don't make a combat check to see if you win. You need HP, AC, saves, attack bonuses, damage, etc. If you give a 1st level character a 20th level guys's+30 item, he'll be about as good as the 20th level guy. On the other hand, if you give him the 20th level character's magic weapon, he'll still only have a handful of HP, and normal AC, saves, etc. Because combat has so many factors involved, one relatively cheap item doesn't give instant mastery.
Johno and Victim:
I am sorry if I have caused confusion. In no way did I intend to mean that skill items are balanced because combat items are. My post was a reply to this specific quote:
This quote implies that it is unfair to allow skill-boosting items as they cheapen the impact of those who deploy skill points in the appropriate skill. My reply was that this *particular* point, and this point only, was untenable as combat items 'cheapen' the impact of those who take combat-orientated feats.
In general, I do believe that skill boosting items should be treated with caution. I banned Potions of Glibness in my campaigns (amongst others), for precisely the reasons that Victim pointed out.
Edit: Added last paragraph to clarify position.
I am sorry if I have caused confusion. In no way did I intend to mean that skill items are balanced because combat items are. My post was a reply to this specific quote:
This quote implies that it is unfair to allow skill-boosting items as they cheapen the impact of those who deploy skill points in the appropriate skill. My reply was that this *particular* point, and this point only, was untenable as combat items 'cheapen' the impact of those who take combat-orientated feats.
In general, I do believe that skill boosting items should be treated with caution. I banned Potions of Glibness in my campaigns (amongst others), for precisely the reasons that Victim pointed out.
Edit: Added last paragraph to clarify position.
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