Are stat modifiers really bonus + 1/2 per level?

[Terramotus]

From what I've seen, I've come to the speculation of:

Ability score = obviously the stat.
Ability modifier = (stat - 10)/2
Skill modifier for untrained skills = ability modifier + 1/2 level
Skill modifier for trained skills = ability modifier + 1/2 level + 5

Are people really thinking it's something different?

Apparently, from the discussion on what the Rogue's healing surges numbers mean. I've also seen it quoted a number of other places around here, but I didn't stop to think about the implications until that thread.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It certainly doesn't apply ALL the time. I think the 1/2 level will be blatantly stated on the given math when it applies, so I doubt it applies to any of the "modifiers" we've seen in say, the rogue.

(Though I expect it will apply to attack rolls)

On the stat cards, it's definitely the skill modifiers.

Fitz

 

[mach1.9pants]

Sorry you lost me there, mate:

Well, that would go against the initial example of high-level characters being able to break down doors with ease.

So +1/2s level to your STR check wouldn't make door destruction at high level easier (esp easier than 3E straight STR)?

This does render invalid the 3E rule that an untrained skill check is equivalent to an ability check, though.

And +1/2 levels to stat (edit: sorry Ability) checks is exactly the same as stat(edit: Ability modifier)+1/2 level to untrained skill checks; the same as 3e.
(?)

 

[hong]

Sorry you lost me there, mate:

So +1/2s level to your STR check wouldn't make door destruction at high level easier (esp easier than 3E straight STR)?

And +1/2 levels to stat (edit: sorry Ability) checks is exactly the same as stat(edit: Ability modifier)+1/2 level to untrained skill checks; the same as 3e.
(?)

What I meant was, ability checks being x + 1/2 level would make the 10th level guy better at stuff like kicking down doors than the 1st level guy. Even if it was a wimpy 10th level guy and a beefy 1st level guy. Kicking down doors is the example of a raw ability check. This seems not right, despite the general trend of "high level people are good at everything".

In particular, it means that high level people can regularly win initiative (Dex check) against low level ones. While possibly making sense, it could make it really difficult to run balanced fights if one side is much higher level than the other (even more than it already is).

So, the alternative is to treat ability checks as just (stat - 10)/2, while untrained skill checks add the level/2 bit. However, this means that you have to distinguish between situations where you want an ability check, and an untrained skill check.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Gotcha. However, I reckon that the +1/2 levels will be applied to skill checks and ability checks.
An average paragon weedy wizard will not only be better than a starting beefy fighter at sneaking and spotting and stuff but also better at kicking down doors. It is not about your strength but where you put your boot
Gamism>realism in 4E IMO so far...

 

[hong]

Also, Iron Heroes made the distinction between ability checks and untrained skill checks, FWIW.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Also, Iron Heroes made the distinction between ability checks and untrained skill checks, FWIW.

Good point, I forgot that. I was a bit of a bugger to DM tho, IMO

 

[Victim]

Well, that would go against the initial example of high-level characters being able to break down doors with ease. This does render invalid the 3E rule that an untrained skill check is equivalent to an ability check, though.

Is that a problem though? It seems like there would room to improve on kicking in doors without significant changes in overall strength. At least up to a point. But at that level, realistic limitations are fading anyway.

 

[Sphyre]

Apparently, from the discussion on what the Rogue's healing surges numbers mean. I've also seen it quoted a number of other places around here, but I didn't stop to think about the implications until that thread.

I've come to hypothesize that healing surges are a resource, not a value based on the very information contained within this post in said thread. In fact, I was going to post that exact same quote with the same emphasis until I noticed I was beaten to the punch.

 

[Sphyre]

What ability checks?

Ability checks are any of the following:

• Strength Check (for example trying to force a door open [in 3e])
  Dexterity Check (For example resisting being tripped)
  Constitution Check (For example Holding your breath
  Intelligence Check (For example making an untrained knowledge check (which had a max result of 10, untrained)
  Wisdom Check (For example escaping from a maze)
  Charisma Check (For example compelling a charmed thing to do what it normally wouldn't do)