Are Superhero films dying?

[Kaodi]

Like Loki, entire alternate timelines being wiped out, google's of beings and it just seems all samey

Googols.

 

[Kaodi]

Maybe I am forgetting some titles but I think we may be at the point where it would be worth trying some more actual genre and setting crossing superhero movies, maybe even with original characters if necessary. Like an actual Western, but with superheroes! Or an actual slasher film, but with superheroesvictims, or a medieval superhero film. You know - like the way musical genres are always mashed together.

Today I even had the incredibly stupid idea of having a superhero film that was more of "a day in the life" stream of consciousness style, where the hero has to take a bathroom break at the beginning of the final fight and the villain is like, "I too have seen Dragon Ball Z. I know the value of defeating your enemy at their strongest. Go, relieve yourself. Have a glass of water. But do not dishonour yourself by stopping for a snack break - that would be pushing my generosity too far."

 

[Ryujin]

Today I even had the incredibly stupid idea of having a superhero film that was more of "a day in the life" stream of consciousness style, where the hero has to take a bathroom break at the beginning of the final fight and the villain is like, "I too have seen Dragon Ball Z. I know the value of defeating your enemy at their strongest. Go, relieve yourself. Have a glass of water. But do not dishonour yourself by stopping for a snack break - that would be pushing my generosity too far."

"The Specials", written by James Gunn. Released in 2000.

Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me.

The Specials (2000) ⭐ 5.7 | Action, Comedy, Fantasy

1h 22m | R

www.imdb.com

 

[Older Beholder]

By my reckoning there have been four truly great superhero films: The Incredibles, The Dark Knight, Into the Spiderverse, and End Game. Maybe Black Panther and Spider-Man 2. I’d put The Incredibles at number one.

That’s not bad for genre film, but it has gotten pretty stale lately.

For television there’s Watchmen.

I'd probably throw Logan into the mix of great superhero films.

 

[Richards]

But even if superhero films are dying, remember that these are superheroes we're talking about. Death doesn't stop most of them for very long; invariably, they'll be back.

Johnathan

 

[Gradine]

My family and I are super pumped for The Marvels, and I expect it'll put up good numbers still; people forget that the first movie had incredibly great profits. I think the numbers will be depressed a bit because the actors can't be out promoting it right now, but I honestly don't think it'll be that bad.

 

[Zardnaar]

My family and I are super pumped for The Marvels, and I expect it'll put up good numbers still; people forget that the first movie had incredibly great profits. I think the numbers will be depressed a bit because the actors can't be out promoting it right now, but I honestly don't think it'll be that bad.

Earl projections were terrible 55-70 million other crept up to 70 million opening. Last inpsid attention.

Less than little mermaid on that trajectory.

 

[Vael]

My family and I are super pumped for The Marvels, and I expect it'll put up good numbers still; people forget that the first movie had incredibly great profits. I think the numbers will be depressed a bit because the actors can't be out promoting it right now, but I honestly don't think it'll be that bad.

Despite cooling on Marvel in general, I am eager for The Marvels, because the cast is winning and anything to upset the gatekeepers.

And I'm still susceptible to the allure of Marvel and their IP and characters. They've announced a Marvel and Magic The Gathering crossover in 2025, and despite wanting to stop spending money on both things, I know I'm all in for this. I want my X-Men Commander deck and draft the various Avengers.

 

[Clint_L]

Very relevant article:

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

 

[Mercurius]

Very relevant article:

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Good article. I have to diverge a bit from this, though:

Replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel’s current troubles can be traced back to 2020. That’s when the COVID pandemic ushered in a mandate to help boost Disney’s stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio’s fledgling streaming platform, Disney+. According to the plan, there would never be a lapse in superhero fare, with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment.

But the ensuing tsunami of spandex proved to be too much of a good thing, and the demands of churning out so much programming taxed the Marvel apparatus. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers.

I see the problem as two, or really three-pronged - with the third being "and a few other things":

1) Marvel seemingly doesn't understand that quantity cannot replace quality. From what I've seen and read, the quality of almost everything dipped substantially after Endgame, and replaced with--as the quote above says--a deluge of shows. Formula ruled over innovation, and we got more wow-zap! while even the CGI dipped to pre-2010ish "This is obviously CGI" levels.

2) I think it is understated just how much the franchise rested on the charisma of its two leading characters: Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man/Tony Stark and Chris Evans' Captain America. I like Anthony Mackie, but his version of Cap is just not as interesting or magnetic as Evans' character. And of course Downey was so central to everything, his wit and ability to bridge the absurd and serious second to none. He was and is irreplaceable. To a lesser extent this was true of Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow, who while not carrying the films like Evans or Downey, at least expressed a distinct vibe that potentized every scene she was in.

3) And of course the death of Chadwick Boseman didn't help (May he RIP). While he didn't have the clever humor of Downey or the preternatural heroism of Evans, he had his own brand of charisma that would have made him a centerpiece of the new era of Marvel. And no one else could carry the torch. Let's be honest: Brie Larson is just not very likable, at least not as a superhero. I remember first seeing her back in 2009 with United States of Tara and thinking "this young actress has a future." This was more than fulfilled by 2015's Room. But then she turned that rise to mainstream success into (unfortunately) action stardom, and the promise actualized in Room withered. To some extent, I think the same is true of Elizabeth Olsen: from Indie actress to if she just focuses really hard and gets over her demons, she can defeat anyone. Not to mention that both Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch have the same "More power than personality" problem. And while Tom Holland's "Golly, gee" was endearing at first, it didn't really develop. Similarly with Chris Hemsworth's Thor and Mark Ruffalo's Hulk: great as secondary characters, but they just don't work as the leading heroes. So we were left with a host of lesser heirs and one-noters for leading roles, with no heavy-hitters carrying the torch of Marvel-style heroism. Just MHO, of course.

So it may boil down to that phrase: more power than personality. And this in different variations: more cgi extravaganzas than meaningful personal dynamics; campy humor that peaked back with "That guy's playing Galaga" and tried to keep squeezing juice form the same dried up lemon for another decade. And of course characters that became more and more powerful, but less and less interesting.

What I think Marvel needs more than anything are specific personalities to center the franchise on. Story is important, of course, but you need those characters. It doesn't have to be Downey's Stark or Evans' Cap, but they really need to hit it out of the park with the actors who play the Fantastic Four, or whomever the baton is being passed to.