Pathfinder 1E Are the exploration rules in Kingmaker system-neutral?

[wedgeski]

Hey all,

I'm drawing up plans for my next D&D campaign, in which I want the PC's to be tasked with taming a wild and dangerous corner of the land in the name of the King. So, the campaign will have two modes: first, the kicking in of the doors and the slaying of the monsters, and second, a kind of socio-economic mini-game where the players have to tame the land, install lords, collect tithes, keep the populace happy, and essentially bring civilization to the wilderness.

This sounds exactly like Kingmaker to me but I'm very unlikely to run this campaign in either 3E or Pathfinder. Are the rules governing exploration, governance, etc. in that product something I could port to any version of D&D?

Thanks!

 

[LexStarwalker]

Yes, they would be easy to transfer over.

 

[Keldin]

You may want to wait a bit for the newest Pathfinder book, Ultimate Campaign, due out this month. Included in the description for the book (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8vdl) is: "Rules for building up a kingdom, including construction and technological advancements, governing your people, and more." That looks to me like an updated version of the kingdom building/maintenance rules from the Kingmaker campaign.

 

[Kinak]

That looks to me like an updated version of the kingdom building/maintenance rules from the Kingmaker campaign.

That's correct. From what I've read on the Paizo forums, it's the Kingmaker rules with updates based on feedback from people running the campaign.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[MerricB]

The Kingmaker rules are (ahem) rather broken. They work as long as the players don't understand them. The moment someone sits down and properly analyses how they work, all the tension goes away and you're left with a system where there's no risk and a lot of reward. The main attraction of them is that they're simple. Unfortunately, that just makes them easier to break.

The basic flaw with the Kingmaker rules is this: Upkeep goes up as your kingdom gets bigger in size, but it doesn't go up (significantly) as your cities get bigger. Your economy gets better as your cities get bigger. There is a limit on how fast you can improve cities dependent on kingdom size, so the city improvement will go slowly at first, but once you get to a big enough kingdom, the amount of economy you bring in means that you never have to worry about failing a check again.

The less said about the rules for building and maintaining armies the better.

In terms of the goals you stated above:
* the players have to tame the land - part of Kingmaker
* install lords - not part of Kingmaker
* collect tithes - assumed as part of Kingmaker
* keep the populace happy - part of Kingmaker
* and essentially bring civilization to the wilderness. - part of Kingmaker

The problem is that it rarely does those things *well*. It's not bad for a first attempt, but lacks proper development and testing. Now that it's been played (a lot), we'll see what the revised rules in Ultimate Campaign are like.

Cheers!

 

[dqgneal]

Personally I imagine the number of people playing Kingmaker will have forced some major changes to the system. I hope it plays an integral part in the Pathfinder Online system. One can hope that design team and the feedback from all the GMs using the system will have hastened future development.

I am looking forward to seeing what they do in Ultimate Campaign.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I hope it plays an integral part in the Pathfinder Online system.

I think that's optimistic. MMOs are tricky beasts, and that'd be one hell of a new system to introduce for a first time development house. They'll want to get the game online before they run out of revenue, and having a new complicated system as a core part of the game is a good way to make sure they'll take a long, long time in alpha and beta testing.

If it's part of Pathfinder Online at all, I'd expect it as an expansion later on.

 

[wedgeski]

Thanks all, very useful.

Not really PF as such, but are there any other systems, old or new, that might also serve the purpose? What about if I remortgaged my hosue and bought a copy of Birthright off eBay, for example?

 

[Blackwarder]

Check ACKS, it got kingdom building baked right into the basic foundation of the system and it can be used in most RPG games I can think off with a bit of change, you should also check out their Kickstarter campaign for Domains at War, the supplemental for mass combat that also encompass building keeps and infrastructure.

Warder

 

[delericho]

The Kingmaker rules are (ahem) rather broken. They work as long as the players don't understand them. The moment someone sits down and properly analyses how they work, all the tension goes away and you're left with a system where there's no risk and a lot of reward.

Pretty much like D&D 3e, then?