D&D 5E Are there actions not covered under a skill?

[iserith]

It is indeed , but I imagine I'm applying it a little differently than some DMs. I'm only rolling in the first place because of the guards, whereas I think some folks are calling for the roll, and then figuring out what the failure state is once the roll fails. That approach works, I just don't care for it as a core approach to adjudicating actions. Even in that case, I'm probably more likely to just have them find the key, and then announce You hear running footsteps and the clanking of mail in the hall, coming toward the Chancellor's study, what do you do? I'd more likely call for a roll if they heard the running footsteps before they started looking for the key. In the second case the need for a roll, and the consequences of failure, are already established in the fiction.

Certainly I would say that if a DM is following the standard adjudication process, which requires some amount of thought about whether the player's stated approach to the goal of their character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, then he or she is necessarily thinking about what happens on a failure before calling for the ability check.

 

[iserith]

What do you think the rules say checks are about?

The upside to having a rulebook is that I don't have to think - I can just refer to the rules which tell us exactly what they are and how to use them.

 

[Charlaquin]

Do folks generally have things hidden in rooms that the players have ample time to thoroughly search? Cause, like, sure, hypothetically if there was a scenario in my game where there was no time pressure and the players said “we thoroughly search this whole room, taking as much time as we need to make sure we don’t miss anything,” then yeah, they’d find anything hidden in that room without a roll, on account of no consequences for time spent looking in parts of the room where nothing is hidden. But, like, that wouldn’t happen in my games? If I’m setting up a challenge where the players need to find a hidden thing, there’s gonna be time pressure. At least periodic random encounter checks if nothing else.

 

[Fenris-77]

Certainly I would say that if a DM is following the standard adjudication process, which requires some amount of thought about whether the player's stated approach to the goal of their character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, then he or she is necessarily thinking about what happens on a failure before calling for the ability check.

My point was more that the more often a given DM calls for checks as a default first step the more likely that same DM is to not have given significant thought to the consequences other than success/failure. That same DM probably might not even give much thought to consequences other than success/failure as the outcome of an ability check in a general way. For that DM the call for an ability check is more like an auto-response to player declarations than it is a tool specifically used to generate consequences from meaningful choices. I know I'm painting with a broad brush here, but in my experience this isn't an uncommon DMing style.

 

[iserith]

My point was more that the more often a given DM calls for checks as a default first step the more likely that same DM is to not have given significant thought to the consequences other than success/failure. That same DM probably might not even give much thought to consequences other than success/failure as the outcome of an ability check in a general way. For that DM the call for an ability check is more like an auto-response to player declarations than it is a tool specifically used to generate consequences from meaningful choices. I know I'm painting with a broad brush here, but in my experience this isn't an uncommon DMing style.

Agreed. It is very common in my experience. If something smells like it could be related to a skill, some DMs are super eager to call for that "skill check." (And some players, too.) That's often the case in games that employ the "Roll With It" method.

 

[prabe]

Do folks generally have things hidden in rooms that the players have ample time to thoroughly search? Cause, like, sure, hypothetically if there was a scenario in my game where there was no time pressure and the players said “we thoroughly search this whole room, taking as much time as we need to make sure we don’t miss anything,” then yeah, they’d find anything hidden in that room without a roll, on account of no consequences for time spent looking in parts of the room where nothing is hidden. But, like, that wouldn’t happen in my games? If I’m setting up a challenge where the players need to find a hidden thing, there’s gonna be time pressure. At least periodic random encounter checks if nothing else.

In some instances, the thing is hidden because it's what the NPC who hid it would do. In other instances, it's possible for the PCs to have a time constraint, or to not have a time constraint. In still others, succeeding at the check gives them information or a path they otherwise wouldn't have, but which isn't strictly necessary for them to attain their goal/s (and because there's some uncertainty, it goes to the dice).

 

[iserith]

Do folks generally have things hidden in rooms that the players have ample time to thoroughly search? Cause, like, sure, hypothetically if there was a scenario in my game where there was no time pressure and the players said “we thoroughly search this whole room, taking as much time as we need to make sure we don’t miss anything,” then yeah, they’d find anything hidden in that room without a roll, on account of no consequences for time spent looking in parts of the room where nothing is hidden. But, like, that wouldn’t happen in my games? If I’m setting up a challenge where the players need to find a hidden thing, there’s gonna be time pressure. At least periodic random encounter checks if nothing else.

Generally speaking, a thorough search is going to take about 10 minutes which is a trigger for me to make a wandering monster check. Alternatively, or perhaps in addition to this, there may be a clock the PCs are racing against and they'll have to decide if it's worth it or not.

 

[Charlaquin]

My point was more that the more often a given DM calls for checks as a default first step the more likely that same DM is to not have given significant thought to the consequences other than success/failure. That same DM probably might not even give much thought to consequences other than success/failure as the outcome of an ability check in a general way. For that DM the call for an ability check is more like an auto-response to player declarations than it is a tool specifically used to generate consequences from meaningful choices. I know I'm painting with a broad brush here, but in my experience this isn't an uncommon DMing style.

Yeah, I used to be That DM.

 

[Charlaquin]

In some instances, the thing is hidden because it's what the NPC who hid it would do.

Sure, but then it’s flavor text rather than part of a challenge.

In other instances, it's possible for the PCs to have a time constraint, or to not have a time constraint.

But as the person designing the challenge, why would I choose to design it in such a way as to not have a time constraint? It’s not really very challenging without one, since the players can just declare that they take as much time as they need and thoroughly search the room.

In still others, succeeding at the check gives them information or a path they otherwise wouldn't have, but which isn't strictly necessary for them to attain their goal/s (and because there's some uncertainty, it goes to the dice).

Succeeding at what check? Checks don’t exist independently of actions, and if the declared action is “keep looking until we find it” when there’s no time constraint, then there’s no chance of failure, so no check.

 

[Charlaquin]

Generally speaking, a thorough search is going to take about 10 minutes which is a trigger for me to make a wandering monster check. Alternatively, or perhaps in addition to this, there may be a clock the PCs are racing against and they'll have to decide if it's worth it or not.

Yeah, that’s about how I handle such things too.