Anabstercorian
First Post
tetsujin28 said:
I hadn't looked at it that way before. That explains a heck of a lot.
Are there any good medium armors?
- Thread starter kyloss
- Start date
I hadn't looked at it that way before. That explains a heck of a lot.
HeapThaumaturgist
First Post
Yup, Medium armor is all about the cost-to-benefit analysis. But that's moot after 3rd level for PCs.
But Breastplate does serve an important function as the best protection money can buy for a non-18-Dex character who wants full movement, it just has to be mithril.
For my shock-trooper Bbn/Clr with Divine Vigor, I want to get from Point A to Point B as quickly as possible, and that means light armor. Mithril Breastplate is the best light armor out there for a guy with merely above-average Dex.
But really there are only three armors in the game: Chain Shirt, Breastplate, and Full Plate. If you're getting into the mechanics, there's no reason to wear anything else.
--fje
But Breastplate does serve an important function as the best protection money can buy for a non-18-Dex character who wants full movement, it just has to be mithril.
For my shock-trooper Bbn/Clr with Divine Vigor, I want to get from Point A to Point B as quickly as possible, and that means light armor. Mithril Breastplate is the best light armor out there for a guy with merely above-average Dex.
But really there are only three armors in the game: Chain Shirt, Breastplate, and Full Plate. If you're getting into the mechanics, there's no reason to wear anything else.
--fje
Rystil Arden
First Post
Actually, Mithral Breastplate is better than Mithral Chain Shirt even with 18 Dex. You need to have 22 Dex for the Chain Shirt to be betterHeapThaumaturgist said:
Storminator
First Post
The problem with medium armor is the Chain Shirt. If it had never been invented, medium armor wouldn't look so bad.
PS
PS
Aus_Snow
First Post
Rigid Breastplate and Traveler's Plate are both not too shoddy for Medium. They're from Arms & Armor, by Bastion Press. There are some armours in there that go well beyond the standard D&D limits, so I won't go there. But those two wouldn't be game-breaking for the RAW, I think.
In core D&D though? No, Medium Armour is really quite shafted. Why would any character ever bother, particularly once they've raked in the recommended copious thousands of gold?
Also:
In core D&D though? No, Medium Armour is really quite shafted. Why would any character ever bother, particularly once they've raked in the recommended copious thousands of gold?
Also:
What they said.Storminator said:
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
It depends what you mean by "published book." The lorica segmentata (medium armor, +5 armor bonus, +4 max dex, 30' move rate) and Milandesian Cuirass (25' move rate, +6 armor, +3 max dex) from the Player's Guide to Arcanis are both good medium armors even if they are exotic (not being proficient just cranks the armor check penalty and reduces movement--it doesn't reduce the AC.
In a normal game, however, tetsujin is right--medium armor (with the possible exception of the breastplate which is potentially a good armor for barbarians or rangers with <18 dex who care more about protection than movement (or who are dwarves)) is all about economics of scale. Before 3rd-4th level, however, it's also sometimes worth it for PCs as a matter of economics. When I'm creating 1st level characters, I will usually opt for scale mail rather than a chain shirt for a non-rogue. 50gp is the cost of 2 scrolls of cure light wounds. I will also often buy chain mail for a fighter. If he has any dex at all, it's as good as splint mail and since most fighters won't have an 18+ dex, it's also just as good as a breastplate. Chain shirts are for characters who want to wear them their entire careers.
All that said, however, those various types of armor didn't all coexist simultaneously in the same areas of the real world, so a DM could take the armor table and use it as a worldbuilding tool. Fullplate is a special development of armorers in cities A and B (maybe Milan and Greenwich). The barbarians of the steppes don't have a reliable source of large quantities of metal so most of them wear hide armor and wield hafted weapons (clubs, spears, and axes rather than swords). In the desert region, the ONLY kinds of armor they make are chain shirts, and studded leather. PCs would probably import the best armor they could get from wherever it was manufactured, but that would make them stand out all the more. NPCs would be slightly weaker than usual due to non-optimized armor types, but in most cases, it would only be one or two points of AC and they could mold their class choices and tactics to the kind of armor they wear. (In this example, the desert warriors would probably be dervishes and fighter/rogues rather than fullplate tanks and the barbarians of the Steppes would be heavy duty damage traders--probably taking Shock Trooper and Combat Brute when they reached high enough level. (And if you're dumping a full power attack into your AC with Shock Trooper, the difference between fullplate and hide armor isn't worth mentioning anymore).
In a normal game, however, tetsujin is right--medium armor (with the possible exception of the breastplate which is potentially a good armor for barbarians or rangers with <18 dex who care more about protection than movement (or who are dwarves)) is all about economics of scale. Before 3rd-4th level, however, it's also sometimes worth it for PCs as a matter of economics. When I'm creating 1st level characters, I will usually opt for scale mail rather than a chain shirt for a non-rogue. 50gp is the cost of 2 scrolls of cure light wounds. I will also often buy chain mail for a fighter. If he has any dex at all, it's as good as splint mail and since most fighters won't have an 18+ dex, it's also just as good as a breastplate. Chain shirts are for characters who want to wear them their entire careers.
All that said, however, those various types of armor didn't all coexist simultaneously in the same areas of the real world, so a DM could take the armor table and use it as a worldbuilding tool. Fullplate is a special development of armorers in cities A and B (maybe Milan and Greenwich). The barbarians of the steppes don't have a reliable source of large quantities of metal so most of them wear hide armor and wield hafted weapons (clubs, spears, and axes rather than swords). In the desert region, the ONLY kinds of armor they make are chain shirts, and studded leather. PCs would probably import the best armor they could get from wherever it was manufactured, but that would make them stand out all the more. NPCs would be slightly weaker than usual due to non-optimized armor types, but in most cases, it would only be one or two points of AC and they could mold their class choices and tactics to the kind of armor they wear. (In this example, the desert warriors would probably be dervishes and fighter/rogues rather than fullplate tanks and the barbarians of the Steppes would be heavy duty damage traders--probably taking Shock Trooper and Combat Brute when they reached high enough level. (And if you're dumping a full power attack into your AC with Shock Trooper, the difference between fullplate and hide armor isn't worth mentioning anymore).
Terwox
First Post
Someone, I forget who, had a house rule that light armor doesn't affect your movement, medium armor only affects your run speed, and heavy armor affects your movement and your run speed.
So if you wore chainmail, you might not be able to full out run away from a fight as easily, but you still had normal move (30') for normal/doubles moves, unlike heavy armor. I've not seen this in action, but it sounds alright.
True20 just has light and heavy armor, but that's a whole different ballgame I guess.
So if you wore chainmail, you might not be able to full out run away from a fight as easily, but you still had normal move (30') for normal/doubles moves, unlike heavy armor. I've not seen this in action, but it sounds alright.
True20 just has light and heavy armor, but that's a whole different ballgame I guess.
genshou
First Post
Speaking to all in the thread:Storminator said:
Here's an idea. What would happen if–in your campaign world–you simply decided that chain shirts had not been invented? How would it change the purchase of armor for your PCs of various classes and levels? Would it make the game more fun because it would be more challenging? Or less fun because players wouldn't feel as good about armor choices for certain character types?
Interesting idea, but I think the main effect would be a lot of disgruntled players!genshou said:
I'd rather go with Elder-Basilisk's suggestion, and have regional armour. That chain shirt will seem all the more useful if the players have to go deep into the Mountains of Doom to find the only smiths able to make it.
