Are there official rules for "lack of sleep"?

[pyk]

3.0 DMG suggests using a Con check at DC 12 +4 each night without sleep.

It's under Ability checks, maybe this is the same in 3.5 DMG?

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

'Fatigued on a failed Constitution check' is not 'as least as bad as' 'fatigued.' Again, why should simply staying awake cause you to get to roll to avoid the negative effect you would get from an uncomfortable sleep? This looks backwards-if anything, you should get a roll if you try to sleep and none if you try to stay awake.

That really depends on how you define the fatigue caused by sleeping in armor. In my opinion, you end up fatigued after sleeping in armour because it's exceedingly uncomfortable and cramping to your body. By comparison, it would be easier for your body to simply stay up all night (if you refuse to take off your armor), remaining limber and moving around.

I originally suggested 48 hours of essentially "free" waking time (before making a Constitution check) because I'm sure almost every one of us have pulled an all nighter (being the D&D players that we are) and stayed up the next day with virtually no side-effects.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Sleep Deprived

I originally suggested 48 hours of essentially "free" waking time (before making a Constitution check) because I'm sure almost every one of us have pulled an all nighter (being the D&D players that we are) and stayed up the next day with virtually no side-effects.

Hmmm... but for the average adventurer, they've probably been travelling all day, or spelunking in some nasty cave, and possibly engaged in a life-and-death combat or two to boot. Not getting any (or enough) sleep after such activity would most likely be felt a little more by them than by someone sitting up in a dorm room, flipping text book pages and drinking Mt. Dew all night. A good CON will help, but eventually it'll catch up to you.

And what if you're staying awake all night and you're wearing heavy armor? Staying limber or not, that's going to add to the wear-you-out factor.

Here's how I would probably rule it, plus some excessive expansion:

A character who has not gotten a full 8 hours sleep must make a CON check in the morning, with a DC equal to [number of hours of sleep missed]/2. A failed check means the character is fatigued. The DC is cumulative for hours missed over consecutive nights. A full night's sleep will reset the DC to 0. (This would essentially give anyone with a decent CON the "free" 48 hours.) On an additional failed check, a fatigued character becomes Exhausted, and Exhausted character becomes unconscious.

Wearing heavy or medium armor adds +8 to the DC, even if the character gets a full 8 hours sleep. (No longer automatic, but now a character never knows if he'll feel rested or not when sleeping like this.)

During times of relative inactivity, such as during a night-time watch, another CON check must be made to stay awake. Normally only one check is required, but a strict DM might call for such a check as often as every hour.

Conversely, a combat situation provides a fatigued or exhausted character with a rush of adrenalin, allowing another CON check at the original DC. Failure has no effect, beneficial or otherwise.

Success removes one level of tiredness: a Fatigued character no longer suffers penalties, and an Exhausted character becomes merely Fatigued. At the end of combat, the character regains the penalties he had prior to combat starting. In addition, the DC for CON checks due to lack of sleep increases by 2, including checks for combat situations.

Alchemical and natural stimulants can give a bonus to the CON check, anywhere from +1 to +5 (on a scale of chocolate to cocaine.) This bonus will remain in effect for a number of hours equal to 1d6 + stimulant bonus, after which it becomes a penalty of the same value. This penalty may be offset by additional stimulant doses (which may carry their own hazards.)

That was fun. Any other rules we can make up?

 

[Camarath]

3.0 DMG suggests using a Con check at DC 12 +4 each night without sleep.

It's under Ability checks, maybe this is the same in 3.5 DMG?

Thank you, I was not aware of that reference. That section of the DMG is the same in 3.0 (page 91) and 3.5 (page 33). I think this is as close to an offical rule as there is going to be especially since the section opens like this "There are no rules for trying to stay awake through the night,...".

 

[kwiqsilver]

8 hours is the standard, while many people can operate for a very long time on 6 hours a night, or some very few as little as 3 hours a night (my uncle Bob).

Can't all gamers function on three hours per night?

 

[kwiqsilver]

Kwiqsilver claimed that "If a character doesn't get a "good night's sleep", he is fatigued" and I was asking if he knew of an actual rule that stated that (i.e. no rest = fatigued).

I inferred it from the other rules on the subject and the definitions of the statuses. Although I confused the status. I'd say the characters are fatigued if they get a poor night's sleep, and exhausted if they get no sleep.

 

[allenw]

I find the simplest thing is to say that sleeping poorly, or not at all, makes one fatigued the next day. Logically, "no" sleep should be worse for you than "not enough" sleep, but I'm not sure this is always true in real life, plus the next step up from fatigued is exhausted, (half speed, -6 STR and DEX), which seems excessive for missing just one sleep period.

However, note that among the effects of all forms of Restoration is "eliminates fatigue." So, as long as you're not an arcane spellcaster, you can go without sleep indefinitely, as long as you pour a Lesser Restoration potion on your cornflakes each morning.

What all of these RAW-based discussions miss, though, are the mental effects of lack of sleep, which are probably stronger than the physical effects. If I was coming up with lack-of-sleep rules from scratch, I'd probably assess 1 point of INT and WIS damage per night of missed sleep, in addition to the fatigue.

 

[kwiqsilver]

However, note that among the effects of all forms of Restoration is "eliminates fatigue." So, as long as you're not an arcane spellcaster, you can go without sleep indefinitely, as long as you pour a Lesser Restoration potion on your cornflakes each morning.

I noticed that when making my Barbarian / Frenzied Berserker, so I bought a magic item that casts Lesser Restoration (at the level 1 Paladin spell to cut the cost by a factor of six ) five times per day, which offsets my five total rage and frenzy daily uses.

 

[Scion]

I noticed that when making my Barbarian / Frenzied Berserker, so I bought a magic item that casts Lesser Restoration (at the level 1 Paladin spell to cut the cost by a factor of six ) five times per day, which offsets my five total rage and frenzy daily uses.

I can hear at least a dozen different people on the board having coronaries from just this paragraph