Are these templates reasonable?

[Rystil Arden]

How so? If adding a level increases your CR by 1, surely adding a level adjustment of one (and so increasing your effective level by one) should do the same.

This isn't a sarcastic comment, by the way - I genuinely fail to see how the assumption is flawed, and I'm interested in your take on it.

If you'd like a detailed list of reasons, just look at any of the many definitions of LA ou there. They usually have at least a sidebar explaining this. The short version: CR is calculated for a monster that is going to appear in the campaign only for one brief fight, whereas LA takes into account the usefulness of the abilities for an ongoing character like a PC. So for instance, if the party attacks a monster with Fireball at will, it probably won't be all that different than a monster with Fireball 3/day. But for a PC, Fireball at will is much stronger. Even the Grim Tales calculator does not assume that you will be using it to determine PC ECL.

Oh, and SteveC, my main praise for the templates came from the fact that they weren't overpowered, as many people's templates are. Adding in Survival as a class skill is a neat bonus, but I wouldn't also stick in the natural armour and energy resistance if I were you (and you were right that even Fast Healing 1 is ludicrously overpowered for a PC, if not for a monster, and you had the reasons dead-on).

 

[SteveC]

Oh, and SteveC, my main praise for the templates came from the fact that they weren't overpowered, as many people's templates are. Adding in Survival as a class skill is a neat bonus, but I wouldn't also stick in the natural armour and energy resistance if I were you (and you were right that even Fast Healing 1 is ludicrously overpowered for a PC, if not for a monster, and you had the reasons dead-on).

Thanks again. What I think I will do is present the original versions to my players, and if there aren't any bites at all I'll consider changing things.

--Steve

 

[Rystil Arden]

Thanks again. What I think I will do is present the original versions to my players, and if there aren't any bites at all I'll consider changing things.

--Steve

My guess is that the fighter-types will go for the templates (unless they are really itching for some cool PrC) and the casters won't (because they want to keep getting more powerful spells).

 

[SteveC]

My guess is that the fighter-types will go for the templates (unless they are really itching for some cool PrC) and the casters won't (because they want to keep getting more powerful spells).

We'll have to see. I think at least one of the casters will choose a template, but only because this is a high level game and won't cause him to lose very much. Thanks for your suggestions, by the way!

--Steve

 

[Rystil Arden]

We'll have to see. I think at least one of the casters will choose a template, but only because this is a high level game and won't cause him to lose very much. Thanks for your suggestions, by the way!

--Steve

If he's 15th level then I'd imagine he's drooling over those level 9 spells right around the corner. Ask him if he wants the template after he hits 17 and he might sing a different song though (and your players may not be like mine in their desire for new spell levels ). Good luck!

 

[Nifft]

SteveC, I'm a bit curious about the "power level" (wealth & magic availability) and time scale of your campaign. Are PCs going to have enough down-time to regrow limbs? Do they get a chance to sleep all week often... or ever?

Other than the utility of healing, these look spiffy.

You may want to allow PCs with the Greater template to take [Psionic] feats -- that would be a very sweet addition, but with an opportunity cost. Depends how much you want your campaign world to resemble the Matrix, though.

Cheers, -- N

 

[SteveC]

SteveC, I'm a bit curious about the "power level" (wealth & magic availability) and time scale of your campaign. Are PCs going to have enough down-time to regrow limbs? Do they get a chance to sleep all week often... or ever?

Other than the utility of healing, these look spiffy.

You may want to allow PCs with the Greater template to take [Psionic] feats -- that would be a very sweet addition, but with an opportunity cost. Depends how much you want your campaign world to resemble the Matrix, though.

Cheers, -- N

The campaign is based on D20 Modern, but uses some of the classicly modern rules for the more D&D elements, so it is closer to D&D than a true D20 modern game. That's the reason the wizards aren't that set on getting 9th level spells: the best of them is only going to get level 6 spells soon.

The basis for the game is that the players can come from anywhere/time and all fell into a series of pocket dimensions called the Broken Kingdoms. We have a group with a very diverse background:

A pistol-packing catholic priest (dedicated hero/blessed)
A down on his luck private-eye/boxer (tough/strong hero/mystic warrior)
A martial arts sensei from near future Tokyo (fast hero/martial arts master/mystic warrior)
The great-great-great grandson of Alaister Crowley (smart hero/wizard/arch mage)
An investigator with some of the old ones in his blood (smart hero/field scientist)
A hard-boiled detective mage on the run from the evil that killed his family (dedicated/sorcerer/scion of chaos)
The 37th descendant of Abraham Van Helsing (fast/strong/shadow slayer)

Even though these characters are all D20 Modern based, the game world and campaign is much more based around D&D, so I was interested in balancing the templates from that standpoint.

At the level we're at, it has become a very high-powered game. The characters are very powerful, and some of them have the ability to travel between the different pocket dimensions. When they go from one to another, they've found that time runs at different speeds, so they can (perhaps) leave one realm and go to another for several months, only to return and find out that almost no time has passed in the original realm. In fact exactly that happened to one of the characters: he was kidnapped and returned only moments later, but two years had passed for him in the prison world where he escaped from.

Oh, and I like the psionic option as well.

--Steve

 

[the Lorax]

Clearly it sounds as if you are building an "Amber"-esque game. I played in a 2ed. D&D game which incorporated much of Zelazny's myth and magic back in '88. I like what you've done here

I think I'd go with:

Lesser Blood of Creation
+2 to (Str and Con).
+2 to any one other ability (Dex, Int, Wis, Cha).
Rapid Healing (character heals at twice normal speed naturally).
Lesser Regeneration (character will gradually heal from any wound that is not caused by a “primal” source. This results in gradual regeneration of lost limbs. This process takes a variable time of at least six months for a finger or toe, two years for more complex organs (such as the eyes) and up to 10 years for an arm or a leg. Removing major organs that would normally be fatal will still kill a character. This also grants a +4 to Fortitude saves to stabilize when reduced below 0 HP.
Your type becomes outsider (native).
Level Adjustment: +1

Greater Blood of Creation
+2 to (Str and Con).
+2 to any one other ability (Dex, Int, Wis, Cha).
+2 to any two abilities, which may be any of the above.
Rapid Healing (as above).
Lesser Regeneration (as above).
Minor shapechange: You may change your basic appearance, but not gain other abilities of shapechanging. You receive a +10 bonus to disguise checks and do not need a kit to make disguises, simply 10 minutes time to change your features. Using this ability more than once per day causes fatigue or exhaustion if you are already fatigued. You resume your natural form over the same period if asleep or unconscious.
Your type becomes outsider (native).
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day (each)—any 3 different spells of 0-level. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + character's Cha modifier + spell level.
Natural Armor +2
Level Adjustment: +2

And I'd wouldn't bother with the Survival thing, but I would give it a with synergies from other skills (such as Know-planes and Know-arcana)

Some type of Skill point bonus seems to be in order also...