Are unexpected hydras unbeatable?
- Thread starter jokamachi
- Start date
They are tough for their CR. I had one attack a fresh group of PCs a few years back and had a total party kill. Because the CR appears to be too low, I just blew off the combat, said it was a dream and hit the party with a different encounter.
Part of the problem can stem from giving each head an Attack of Opportunity. They do have Combat Reflexes, but based on their Dex, that is only one extra AoO. I made the mistake of giving them an AoO per head. That makes them a lot tougher.
Part of the problem can stem from giving each head an Attack of Opportunity. They do have Combat Reflexes, but based on their Dex, that is only one extra AoO. I made the mistake of giving them an AoO per head. That makes them a lot tougher.
Magesmiley
Explorer
The group I DM for encountered a 9-headed pyro-hydra last game session. The group consisted of 6 characters, with all but one of them being 8th (the last being a 7th). The group consisted of a fighter, a rogue, a cleric, a ranger, a troll (using the Savage Species progression), and a warlock.
They weren't in terribly great shape (with several of them suffering from excessive cursed clay golem damage from a prior battle). A large chunk of their spells had been used up already. Several of the characters were pretty bad off - the fighter had like 20 hp left, the rogue 9, and the warlock 1. Everyone else was at full health. They managed to defeat the creature, despite the troll and the fighter going down (for the fighter it was fatal - she bled to death, the troll got pulled into 9 separate pieces by bite attacks and eventually recovered).
One big observation here: hydras are SLOW. And the pyro-hydra's breath range is rather low too. The bulk of the damage to take the creature down was done by the ranger's archery (favored enemy magical beasts) and the warlock's eldritch blast. If players have room to maneuver, they can keep at a distance and snipe it to death. In my game's case, the warlock was flying and the ranger was a halfling mounted on a dog. The hydra couldn't deal with either of the things really hurting it.
They weren't in terribly great shape (with several of them suffering from excessive cursed clay golem damage from a prior battle). A large chunk of their spells had been used up already. Several of the characters were pretty bad off - the fighter had like 20 hp left, the rogue 9, and the warlock 1. Everyone else was at full health. They managed to defeat the creature, despite the troll and the fighter going down (for the fighter it was fatal - she bled to death, the troll got pulled into 9 separate pieces by bite attacks and eventually recovered).
One big observation here: hydras are SLOW. And the pyro-hydra's breath range is rather low too. The bulk of the damage to take the creature down was done by the ranger's archery (favored enemy magical beasts) and the warlock's eldritch blast. If players have room to maneuver, they can keep at a distance and snipe it to death. In my game's case, the warlock was flying and the ranger was a halfling mounted on a dog. The hydra couldn't deal with either of the things really hurting it.
Only fought one in a game lately, but it wasn't particularly tough. It suffers the same problem as most any big, ground-bound monster, really. It has a reasonable amount of hit points but a miserable AC, and can't do much to highly mobile PCs. And yeah, it gets lots of attacks for having lots of heads, but there are a lot of PCs relative to just one hydra normally, too.
Ignore the sundering heads thing, because it's a waste of time, and just kill the body. Few characters have Improved Sunder anyway, so you're basically tossing it free AoOs there for no good reason. At most CRs, a full attack from an appropriate party melee guy plus some supporting spells and archery will put it down in a round or two, really.
Ignore the sundering heads thing, because it's a waste of time, and just kill the body. Few characters have Improved Sunder anyway, so you're basically tossing it free AoOs there for no good reason. At most CRs, a full attack from an appropriate party melee guy plus some supporting spells and archery will put it down in a round or two, really.
DanMcS said:
I don't buy this.
CR 4 Hydra with 5 heads. Standard party (25 point buy) of 4 4th level PCs: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard.
The Hydra is slow, but so are the Fighter and Cleric.
The Two Handed Fighter attacks once per round at +9 (+1 WF, +4 BAB, +1 Magic, +3 Str) for 2D6 + 7 (+2 WS, +1 Magic, +4 Str). He hits AC 15 75% of the time, so he averages 75% * 14 * 1.1 (criticals) = 11.55 points of damage per round.
The Hydra attacks the AC 21 (+1 magic, +2 Dex, +8 full plate) Fighter 5 times per round at +6 for D10 + 3. He hits AC 21 30% of the time, so he averages 150% * 8.5 * 1.05 (criticals) = 13.3875 points of damage per round.
The Hydra kills the Fighter in 3 rounds on average if the Cleric does not keep the Fighter alive. It kills the Rogue in 2 or fewer rounds on average.
The Rogue flanks and sneak attacks the Hydra. We assume the Hydra moves around, so either the Fighter gets flank or the Rogue gets flank. Let's give the benefit of doubt to the Rogue getting flank every round and the Fighter never getting flank. The Rogue attacks once per round at +9 (+3 BAB, +1 Magic, +3 Dex Weapon Finesse +2 Flank) for 3D6 + 2 (+1 Magic, +1 Str, +2D6 sneak attack). He hits AC 15 75% of the time, so he averages 75% * 13.5 * 1.1 (criticals) = 10.3125 points of damage per round.
The Wizard casts Magic Missile and averages 7 points of damage every round. He could cast other spells like Melf's Acid Arrow, Grease, etc. which could help more, but also might not do anything.
The Cleric heals the Fighter or Rogue, depending on who the Hydra attacks.
The party averages 30.7 points of damage per round. The Hydra has 55 hit points, but also has Fast Heal 15.
So, the party does 30.7 on round one. The party does 15.7 on subsequent rounds. It takes 3 rounds to take out the Hydra. This assumes that the Hydra does not get any Attacks of Opportunity and does not get lucky and take out the lower AC and hit point Rogue in a single round, etc. This also assumed that the Rogue was able to Flank and Sneak attack every single round, otherwise, it will take more rounds to defeat the Hydra.
For example, on any round that the Fighter and Rogue do not both hit, the Hydra fast heals most if not all of the damage from that round (and possibly some damage from an earlier round).
A lucky party could take the Hydra out in 2 rounds, but not all parties are lucky. I suspect that many combats will result in the Hydra getting lucky on 3 or 4 attacks in at least one round out of the entire combat and the Fighter or Rogue (or even Cleric if he comes up to attack) could get taken out in a single round, especially if they were wounded in an earlier round. When that happens, the Fast Heal becomes even more useful since fewer PCs are attacking.
Last edited:
lukelightning
First Post
Bah, a hydra is nothing vs. my greater-spell-focused phantasmal killer!
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