Are unexpected hydras unbeatable?

[Hypersmurf]

They do have Combat Reflexes, but based on their Dex, that is only one extra AoO.

Based on the text of the Hydra entry, you followed the rules correctly.

Well, according to one interpretation.

There are three that I'm aware of.

1. A five-headed hydra's Combat Reflexes feat replaces the standard Dex-based rule, allowing the hydra to make a single AoO on up to five opportunities per round.

2. A five-headed hydra's Combat Reflexes feat replaces the standard Dex-based rule, allowing the hydra to make up to five AoOs on a single opportunity per round.

3. A five-headed hydra's Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make AoOs on two opportunities per round (1, plus 1 for Dex modifier); on each of those opportunities, it may attack with all five heads.

It's not clear from the wording which is intended.

But I'm pretty sure that 4. A five-headed hydra's Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make a single AoO on two opportunities per round (1, plus 1 for Dex modifier). isn't the intention, since it completely ignores the Hydra text.

-Hyp.

 

[Land Outcast]

Maybe this isn't the place but... How can PCs escape creatures who have 30+speed?
I mean, flying or teleporting are the only ways out?

 

[mvincent]

Maybe this isn't the place but... How can PCs escape creatures who have 30+speed?
I mean, flying or teleporting are the only ways out?

Having an ally with 20' speed is another way out.

 

[Huw]

Short answer: No

Long answer #1: Good fast healing counts for nothing when you have rubbish AC

Long answer #2: Good melee attacks count for nothing when you have slow speed, no ranged attacks (20' breath weapon is NOT ranged), no resistances, no SR and an INT of 2.

 

[Caliban]

I don't buy this.

CR 4 Hydra with 5 heads. Standard party (25 point buy) of 4 4th level PCs: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard.

The Hydra is slow, but so are the Fighter and Cleric.

Whenever it's come up for me, it went a little different. My dwarven fighter carried a shield for things like this (shield is normally equipped, dropping it as part of movement, or as a move action when he wanted to switch to a two-handed grip). And he has combat expertise, dodge, and mobility.

So he closes with the hydra, who needs natural 20's to hit. Everyone else stays back, except for the rogue who tumbles in after he's got the hydra focused on him. Hydra goes down in a round or two, minimal damage to the party.

It really depends on the type of fighter and the rest of the party. If it's a two-handed fighter/barbarian that didn't invest any feats in AC boosts and relies on out-damaging his opponent, then the Hydra has the advantage because of the number of attacks and damage it can do. If the other party members can't help him out (blinding the Hydra, Ray of Enfeeblement, direct damage, etc), then he's going to take a lot of damage, and it could go very badly for the party.

If you have an AC monkey or two in the group, then opponents like the Hydra are much less dangerous (assuming that they can get the hydra focused on them for the initial rounds of combat). (But your damage output tends to be a significantly less because you spent your feats differently, at least until higher levels where additional feats and magic items can be used to shore up weak areas of your PC type.)

Or if the party has strong ranged attacks and ways of slowing the hydra down (Web, grease, everyone in the party flying, etc.)

 

[KarinsDad]

Whenever it's come up for me, it went a little different. My dwarven fighter carried a shield for things like this (shield is normally equipped, dropping it as part of movement, or as a move action when he wanted to switch to a two-handed grip). And he has combat expertise, dodge, and mobility.

So he closes with the hydra, who needs natural 20's to hit. Everyone else stays back, except for the rogue who tumbles in after he's got the hydra focused on him. Hydra goes down in a round or two, minimal damage to the party.

Yes, this can happen, but again, it won't typically happen in a round or two, not at fourth level.

The Hydra still gets 5 attacks at the Dwarf and still has a slim chance (maybe 20%) of getting 5 AoOs on the Rogue when he tumbles in. That means that the Hydra hits the Fighter one round in four. If the Fighter moves around the Hydra and attempts to draw all of the AoOs as well, then the Hydra hits the Fighter 2 rounds out of 5. So, it takes him 20 rounds or 12.5 rounds to kill the Fighter depending (assuming no healing).

The Fighter hits 55% of the time (assuming he only needs to Combat Expertise for 4 and not Fight Defensively as well to only get hit on a 20) for 10.5 per successful hit damage (or 6.355 average damage with crits).

Combined with the Rogue average damage, this is only 17 points a round of which the Hydra heals 15. So, the Rogue and Fighter combined are merely holding the Hydra off and not significantly damaging it if the Fighter fights full blown defensively. It will take them 20 rounds to kill it this way.

The Cleric and Wizard then have to take the Hydra out which they may or may not be capable of doing. Yes, they have 16 combined spells (if totally fresh) and possibly other magic to help them, but many of the spells might not be that useful in this situation. A Ray of Enfeeblement might do great. But, Mirror Image will probably not help and Wizards and Clerics in our campaigns tend to have a mixture of offensive, defensive, and miscellaneous spells.


All in all, this will not take one or two rounds to end. Most groups will probably end it in about four rounds, many more if the Fighter is defensively holding it off like you suggest and not often contributing enough damage to offset the Fast Healing.

Granted, this is a very safe way to handle this situation. But, your one to two round claim fighting this way is not realistic most of the time.

 

[Dog Moon]

Depending on the group, yes or no.

I know that in an adventure I played in, a Hydra apparently surprised us as we were near the bottom of a flight of stairs. The cold breath hurt us greatly and destroyed the stairs we were at. So half the party fell, taking more damage [about 40 ft up]. A couple of people attacked it, but between DR and Fast Healing, not much damage was dealt to it. Then it attacked and almost annihilated us with its numerous bites. I think we lost 2 out of 5 people due to that Hydra, and almost nearly lost the rest.

Even with that experience, I think it is possible, unless it gets a surprise round on you where it uses its breath weapon and then attacks again during the first round, but not necessarily impossible.

 

[jokamachi]

Now what if the characters can't retreat and the battle space is somewhat limited?

Also, Hydras can charge and still attack with all heads as a full round attack. Wouldn't that change the weak movement argument?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'd be more worried about unexpected Remorhaz, really.

My DM put us up against one of these once, but he accidentally pronounced it as Ramirez. Suddenly we thought we had a 16th century spanish swordsman after us, who looked strikingly familiar to Sean Connery.

 

[Seeten]

My Barbarian at level 7 was swinging twice for 1d12 + 20(+12 str,+2 weapon spec, +6 power attack) and more if there was flanking, all additional combat bonuses always turned into power attack. My attack bonus was quite large, hitting AC 15 was certainly a very large likelihood. Anything with 55 hp was gonna die FAST, and I saw things die in the first and second swing often. He was not that much worse at 4 and 5, either.