Are we looking at an RPG Renassiance (moved to Tabletop Gaming)

[Hussar]

Yeah, I gotta go with the idea that we are certainly not in any sort of dark ages of gaming now. There are just so many systems out there. If you cannot find a system to perfectly match your idea, you're not looking hard enough. Everything from one page systems like Weird West to pass-the-story-stick Indie games to mainstream monster games with dozens (if not hundreds) of supplemental books. Good grief, it's an embarrassment of riches.

Never minding things like production values. I mean, we've gone from hand drawn blue ink maps on the back of cardboard to full color, professionally produced products that aren't all that out of place hanging on a wall. Hard cover, full color books are pretty much the norm now.

My Basic D&D book was put together with staples! Compare that to even Kickstarter backed projects. Name three products produced in the 1980's that can come even remotely close to the production values of something like Ptolus. Or heck, even the D&D core books (3e or 4e). Compare the AD&D and 3e Tome of Magic and tell me we're in the dark ages.

 

[Tallifer]

No, because nobody has time to play RPG's anymore. The reason CRPG's and MMORPG's are drinking D&D's milkshake is because you can show up on your schedule, play a couple hours and come back and play some more at your convenience.

I can scrounge around to find 30 players that want to play D&D, but only 2 that will show up for the first session these days. Then getting one of those two to show up for a second session is also difficult.

Maybe I'm just bitter though because I haven't been able to get a D&D game going in over a year since I moved to a new city. I can understand people not wanting to come after a few sessions because I suck as a DM, but not getting people to show up once after a score of players have expressed interest is really frustrating.

I used to think that too until I started playing games every week in Google+ Hangouts.

 

[Greg K]

But in its heyday, RPGs were played in schools, in clubs, all over the place.

They are still played in schools. Jodi Black, the owner of Beautiful Brains, Books and Games and the wife of Savage Worlds Brand Manager, Clint Black, recently held a online discussion about running games in schools. She is, currently, involved with a gaming club at a school in her area. Other guests/game designers were involved in grade school clubs.

I know also know there is an after school enrichment program that offers various art, sports and academic courses after school to elementary school kids at various schools. Among the course offerings listed on their website is D&D 4e and the company pays their instructors $40-60/hr with classes typically being 1hr.

If I had not received a job with a similar program closer to my home, I would have applied. Now, I am trying to convince my boss to offer rpgs to next year's list of classes.

 

[Desdichado]

Oh I see, this is called wishful thinking. Only way to explain this argument being used.

Very well, carry on. The world needs its idealistic youth.

You're very strange. And very mistaken. (Seriously? I'm young now?) And very bitter about... something. Somebody touched your favorite game in a very personal area or something. It was carried off in a white van.

Considering that your argument is completely incoherent and... well, it fails to be an argument so much as an impassioned expression of your disappointment and disillusion in everything happening in gaming today. It amounts to, basically, "I don't like anything!"

I hardly think you need to throw stones at my argument, especially considering that you completely fail to come up with anything to counter it in any way.

 

[slobo777]

I propose we will see a new golden age of arguing on the internet.

Not that it ever went away, but it's about to get a lot better as we pick over every last iota of the upcoming 5E playtest documents - surely two people somewhere will have opinions worth fighting for over the font used in the document for spell descriptions?

Back to the OP, I don't think my group is feeling the buzz, but perhaps we've been out of circulation for so long that we wouldn't notice until afterwards.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Ah, you've captured why it's the Dark Age. It's not going anywhere. Diversity? Come on. The star of this generation of RPGs is a knockoff of a 12 year old game. We have:

What about WFRP 3E?

That's one. (2009). It badly needs a cut down version - but the cut down version can keep all the innovation. Most of what needs cutting out is the throwback material like the careers.

I'll throw in most of Cubicle 7's line that I've played (especially The One Ring (2011) and Dr Who: Adventures in Time and Space, mostly because I don't know the rest (that said, Legends of Anglerre is just a SoTC reskin)).

Also the newer Cortex games - Leverage (2010) and Marvel Superheroes (2012) which officially use the same engine as Serenity, but actually use that engine well rather than as a bog standard trad RPG. In particular Leverage is the best con-game RPG I know.

Also Fiasco (2009) is a gem of a one shot game and pretty popular. It doesn't spawn an empire because all you need is the one book. An excellent two hour storytelling game I'd recommend to anyone.

Apocalypse World (2010) - Vincent Baker's latest. I won't say more because I haven't actually played this.

Also it might not be precisely new, but Tenra Bansho Zero is about to appear. And it looks to me, if not innovative, then bringing in an entire school of RPGs that are outside mainstream British and American RPGs.

None of these (except TBZ - TBD) are small games by the standards of the market. All of them are innovative and outside the D&D (and for that matter the simulationist) paradigm. 13th Age is simply D&D turned up until the knob falls off.

 

[Scribble]

But doing something new with it? Lord no. 13th age is the first damn thing I've seen in a while that actually makes me wonder if someone cares enough to make something different.

What about Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Eclipse Phase, and Marvel Heroic RPG?

It sounds more like you're not seeing a huge popularity of one system sweeping the gaming culture, which is making you for some reason feel like gaming is in a gully?

 

[Bluenose]

That's one. (2009). It badly needs a cut down version - but the cut down version can keep all the innovation. Most of what needs cutting out is the throwback material like the careers.

Considering a very similar dice system is being used for their new Star Wars RPG, I think it can be considered a reasonable success. Or a successful trial, at least.

I'll throw in most of Cubicle 7's line that I've played (especially The One Ring (2011) and Dr Who: Adventures in Time and Space, mostly because I don't know the rest (that said, Legends of Anglerre is just a SoTC reskin)).

Qin and Yggdrasil are excellent, especially the second, but can't exactly be called innovation by C7. They're translations, and I have no idea how original they are compared to other French games.

 

[GreyICE]

You're very strange. And very mistaken. (Seriously? I'm young now?) And very bitter about... something. Somebody touched your favorite game in a very personal area or something. It was carried off in a white van.

Considering that your argument is completely incoherent and... well, it fails to be an argument so much as an impassioned expression of your disappointment and disillusion in everything happening in gaming today. It amounts to, basically, "I don't like anything!"

I hardly think you need to throw stones at my argument, especially considering that you completely fail to come up with anything to counter it in any way.

None of this stuff is new, dude.

And if moneymaking was a measure of originality, innovation, and amazing new content, Call of Duty would be one of the most original and innovative series on the market.

Pathfinder made a lot of money. So did the Call of Duty series.

You've confused this with innovation... why?

 

[Hussar]

None of this stuff is new, dude.

And if moneymaking was a measure of originality, innovation, and amazing new content, Call of Duty would be one of the most original and innovative series on the market.

Pathfinder made a lot of money. So did the Call of Duty series.

You've confused this with innovation... why?

Why is innovation being conflated with "changes that I like"? I mean, 3e was hugely innovative for D&D. It changed virtually every single aspect of the game. To the point where you simply cannot do 1:1 comparisons between AD&D and 3e. A 5th level fighter in 1e is pretty much the same as a 5th level fighter in 2e but looks nothing like a 5th level fighter in 3e. A 5th level 2e fighter is fighting giants toe to toe and winning. A 5th level 3e fighter gets squished by a single hill giant and even a troll has a pretty good chance one on one. The scale is completely different.

4e's biggest innovation was breaking out of the turn sequence. At least, that's my opinion. Adding in the ability to act out of your turn was seen a bit in earlier editions, but, nowhere near to the degree and certainly not as pro-active as it is in 4th. Now, whether that change is good or not is not my point. I like it, but, that's just me. But, that's certainly something never seen before in D&D and it's a huge game play change.