D&D 5E Are Wizards really all that?

[Maxperson]

They retain their personality, I've only really seen it played as it still counts as your simulacrum.

Personality, so I hope you were a nice wizard. But you've just freed your slave from being a simulacrum and it's probably going to be angry that you've been throwing it into deadly situations to keep your rear alive.

This is what I mean by casters being OP because of not following the 6-8 encounters per day OR giving spells more power than they have. True polymorph turns the target into the new creature entirely. The ONLY things retained are alignment and personality, meaning it's no longer going to be a simulacrum or bound to do your bidding.

If not, then it wouldn't really work well on yourself either, since you'd be a demon that just appeared there and has no memories or an idea of what's even happening (wouldn't know to keep concentrating either, so probably would just drop it and end the spell immediately).

Yep. That's how the polymorph spells work, which is why they are generally cast on others. In a game I played in the wizard turned the party irritable barbarian into a T-Rex and he almost ate us.

Edit: Sage advice says you can keep concentrating.

 

[Vaalingrade]

giving spells more power than they have.

Moving a spell from 'you turned a thing into a new shape' to 'you rewrite existence to bring into being an entirely new creature with the personality and alignment of the target' is... removing power from the spell?

Because from here it looks like playing monkey's paw to make a very high level spell more useless than its lower level counterparts.

What happens when they start using this to memory wipe people?

 

[Maxperson]

Moving a spell from 'you turned a thing into a new shape' to 'you rewrite existence to bring into being an entirely new creature with the personality and alignment of the target' is... removing power from the spell?'

It's a lot weaker than leaving it under the command of the caster.

Because from here it looks like playing monkey's paw to make a very high level spell more useless than its lower level counterparts.

Nope. I'm just not using DM fiat to make the spell more than it is.

What happens when they start using this to memory wipe people?

The king has them executed.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Personality, so I hope you were a nice wizard. But you've just freed your slave from being a simulacrum and it's probably going to be angry that you've been throwing it into deadly situations to keep your rear alive.

This is what I mean by casters being OP because of not following the 6-8 encounters per day OR giving spells more power than they have. True polymorph turns the target into the new creature entirely. The ONLY things retained are alignment and personality, meaning it's no longer going to be a simulacrum or bound to do your bidding.

Yep. That's how the polymorph spells work, which is why they are generally cast on others. In a game I played in the wizard turned the party irritable barbarian into a T-Rex and he almost ate us.

Edit: Sage advice says you can keep concentrating.

I take personality being you straight up. Still vague though, but:

This leads me to believe that all the effects of the Simulacrum spell would remain, including the "they obey you" part.

You can keep concentrating, just don't see why you ever would if we're going with them just becoming a new creature entirely with no clue of what's happening.

 

[Maxperson]

I take personality being you straight up. Still vague though, but:

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This leads me to believe that all the effects of the Simulacrum spell would remain, including the "they obey you" part.

You can keep concentrating, just don't see why you ever would if we're going with them just becoming a new creature entirely with no clue of what's happening.

That's also vague, because it's answering whether you can cast spells on them, not if they are created by a spell. Is simulacrum a spell effect on something? Maybe or maybe not. Is the control over it part of the stat block? Maybe.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

I doubt many games exactly mimic a choreographed fight. When Bourne is done with a fight, the enemy is unconscious which is a standard rule. Can you get the same flavor? I think you can if it's what you want. But how many genres is D&D supposed to mimic? If a PC wants to incapacitate an NPC in my game it's a grapple followed by some checks and manacles or rope. Most of the time it's just knock them unconscious and then slap them awake (or give them 1 HP of healing) afterwards.

IMHO you're getting way, way too far into the weeds and details into things that is typically explained by fluff and narration. I do this kind of thing now and then without any house rules, another example would be some of the fights/wrestling matches from Critical Role.

Earlier in this thread there was a set of proposals that took up like 5 lines of text (don't quote me on that number) and covered 70% of the things in question. Mages have well over 100 pages of stuff that is "in the weeds", non-magical options can't get an extra half page? When Bourne is done with the fight, he questions the guy. He is not unconscious at that time.

Preventing an enemy from using a gun, or wand of disintegration, to kill an ally isn't a 'fluff' thing. It's a serious mechanical consideration. Wizards have dozens of ways to prevent the enemy from taking their desired action. Non-magical characters do not. Real life people can stop enemies from doing what they want to do, and can protect others by physically preventing them from using a weapon while in combat. D&D non-magical characters can not. They are significantly less than real people when it comes to their capabilities. I'm in favor of shoring up some of the gaps, providing maybe an extra page of rules, so that non-magical characters can have more options in combat beyond 'I attack 3 times' and can close the gap between their capabilities and that of a normal human, to say nothing of a Wizard. If that's "way, way too far into the weeds" for you, so be it. Compared to the 150+ pages total spent on spells in 5e I personally don't think it's much at all though.

 

[James Gasik]

Awesome. Encumbrance and bulk are things, so a wizard carrying around 6 swords, which he can only get one out round, is awesome! So he uses his action to become a Maralith and pulls out one sword. The next round he pulls out a second sword and either attacks twice or spends his action to get a third sword. Round 3 he either attacks 3 times with swords, or spends his action to pull out a 5th sword. Round 4 he can actually attack with 6 swords if he hasn't attack yet. Otherwise he's still pulling out swords. And that's if he didn't trip over them and die earlier in the dungeon.

That's what secret chest is for?

 

[Zubatcarteira]

That's also vague, because it's answering whether you can cast spells on them, not if they are created by a spell. Is simulacrum a spell effect on something? Maybe or maybe not. Is the control over it part of the stat block? Maybe.

RAI seems to be that a bond from Greater Steed would remain, it's still your Steed while polymorphed, so they should remain your Simulacrum as well. Although one does summon a creature, while the other creates them straight up.

 

[Irlo]

Awesome. Encumbrance and bulk are things, so a wizard carrying around 6 swords, which he can only get one out round, is awesome! So he uses his action to become a Maralith and pulls out one sword. The next round he pulls out a second sword and either attacks twice or spends his action to get a third sword. Round 3 he either attacks 3 times with swords, or spends his action to pull out a 5th sword. Round 4 he can actually attack with 6 swords if he hasn't attack yet. Otherwise he's still pulling out swords. And that's if he didn't trip over them and die earlier in the dungeon.

Don't forget the tail!

 

[Maxperson]

RAI seems to be that a bond from Greater Steed would remain, it's still your Steed while polymorphed, so they should remain your Simulacrum as well. Although one does summon a creature, while the other creates them straight up.

That seems good enough to me. I'd still be hesitant to make combat simulacrums, though. They're expensive and have that 1k xp cost, and if it hits 0 it's gone and you make a new one.