D&D 4E Are you happy with the coverage of 4e so far?

[catsclaw227]

I don't like the fact that a lot of questions that are asked get a response along the lines of "We can't answer that because it's in the preview books" which, of course, they want us to buy.

See, this doesn't bother me at all. They ARE a business, after all, and I don't begrudge them the desire to keep some things under wraps until their product is out. I would likely do the same thing.

 

[JVisgaitis]

See, this doesn't bother me at all. They ARE a business, after all, and I don't begrudge them the desire to keep some things under wraps until their product is out. I would likely do the same thing.

I can see your point if its the actual core books we are talking about. These books seem to have no use whatsoever (at least to me) aside from serving as a preview for 4e. Again, I'll be purchasing them and while I'm not saying I loathe WotC for doing this, it seems a bit low to me to do something like this.

 

[DaveMage]

I can see your point if its the actual core books we are talking about. These books seem to have no use whatsoever (at least to me) aside from serving as a preview for 4e.

Exactly.

No problem if they say we'll have to wait for the core books, but to make us wait for a *preview* book that might be redundant when the core books release (or, depending on playtesting, obsolete), well, I'm not liking it.

 

[catsclaw227]

I can see your point if its the actual core books we are talking about. These books seem to have no use whatsoever (at least to me) aside from serving as a preview for 4e. Again, I'll be purchasing them and while I'm not saying I loathe WotC for doing this, it seems a bit low to me to do something like this.

I am looking at it like beta software (that I have to buy....). I get to poke and prod it, but I won't use it in production until it it is released officially.

I am interested in it because it might be able to give some 3rd party companies a chance to start development. Didn't I read somewhere that the SRD (or the basic rules) will be available for D&D Experience? Its possible that these books will be the foundation used during that con.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I am looking at it like beta software (that I have to buy....). I get to poke and prod it, but I won't use it in production until it it is released officially.

In case I'm starting to sound like a jerk, let me clarify myself before my rebuttal. I'm not wholly against the idea and I understand they need to make money and such. The idea of this just kinda leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I'll be the first to go and buy the books and I won't be cursing them or anything like that when I do so nor do I think any less of WotC for releasing them.

That aside, it really isn't like beta software. Knowing what we do (which is admittedly little) the books are basically a preview into the entire design process and they have little or no rules. It sounds to me like they are going to be the Special Features disc of a DVD set without the movie. Yeah, they'll be interesting to see, but without the movie there isn't a lot of context.

I am interested in it because it might be able to give some 3rd party companies a chance to start development. Didn't I read somewhere that the SRD (or the basic rules) will be available for D&D Experience?

From what I heard from Scott, early access to the SRD might be available around the 1st of the year. I hope so. I'm chomping at the bit to see and know everything. From what I understand though the books are almost entirely fluff. Am I just off base on that? It seems like you think they will be like quick start rules. Is that right?

 

[catsclaw227]

From what I heard from Scott, early access to the SRD might be available around the 1st of the year. I hope so. I'm chomping at the bit to see and know everything. From what I understand though the books are almost entirely fluff. Am I just off base on that? It seems like you think they will be like quick start rules. Is that right?

Yea, I was under the impression that the preview books would have something more than a look behind the scenes, and actually have something in the way of quickstart rules. Maybe that's where the disconnect comes from.

Is there something definitive anywhere that states what the two preview books will have in them?

 

[JVisgaitis]

Is there something definitive anywhere that states what the two preview books will have in them?

There's this:

I just leaned over and asked Bruce, and either he misspoke or was misquoted; these things happen at conventions. There are some mechanics details in the books, and I have no doubt that you guys will find every single last one. But their primary purpose is to serve as a primer to 4th Edition. The Classes and Races book that I worked on, for example, starts with the timeline of the game's development and then presents multi-page spreads on most of the races and classes that you'll see in the Player's Handbook. "Most," not all -- we want to save some surprises for later. ^_^ And as noted previously, those spreads are full of design and development commentary about the decision-making process for every aspect of the game.

Plus some amazingly kick-ass William O'Connor art. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

and...

What does "value" mean to you?

If you mean, "Can I use them as reference books when I'm playing D&D at the table?" the answer is no, because that was never their intent in the first place.

They're extensive first looks, first and foremost, but the essays written for these books are not going to be regurgitated in later products...so there might be world-building details that don't appear elsewhere, or only in shorter form. I can already think of a few mechanical details that have already changed from when I turned it over to typesetting, which will provide further insight into the process. Certainly the designer commentary is unique.

Value is relative. I bought the Absolute (super-deluxe) edition of Darwin Cooke's New Frontier comic book not because I expected more of the actual comic, but because for me, uber-comic geek that I am, the sketches and commentary and details about the process of making the comic are just as much a part of the reading experience. Would I be missing anything from the story without them? Maybe not. But those things add a huge amount of value to me.

Michele Carter, RPG Senior Editor, Wizards of the Coast

That info came from this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206999&page=1&pp=40

I posted most of the relevant stuff though. If there is a ton of William O'Connor art in there, I'll be very pleased. We'll see though...

 

[charlesatan]

I'd much rather see them talk about the strengths of the new game, rather than the weaknesses of the old, thanks.

There's only so many ways you can talk about 4E without talking about the weaknesses of 3E. For example, some people interpret "we're doing X better" as "they're bashing X in 3E".

 

[catsclaw227]

That info came from this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206999&page=1&pp=40

I posted most of the relevant stuff though. If there is a ton of William O'Connor art in there, I'll be very pleased. We'll see though...

Well there you go...

And now those books are no longer as valuable to me. I still likely get them for the "behind-the-scenes" stuff, but I really did think they were going to be like beta-srd-lite-mini-game-preview stuff.

I guess we have to wait for the SRD in January (February?).

 

[Crashy75]

I'm annoyed they've interrupted the 4e updates with 3.whatever stuff (exemplars of evil). Also, there have only been vague hints at some of the major changes (action points that will be in but different than saga/eberron and all classes get per day/encounter/will abilities as examples). I want something meaty! How will multiclass be improved? How restrictive will the roles be? Of course, I won't be happy until I have the three core books in my hot little hands. God I feel like Cartman waiting for his wii.