arguing with my DM: The Leadership feat(and a wizard)

[Dzyu]

Well, Oryan, if you were listening to me you'd hear that if he in fact acted so brazenly because he was tired of me rather than being honest and direct that is exactly the sort of thing I won't accept. Call me a problem player if you like, but he cannot expect to be treated with respect if he does not respect his players, and that, being the core of this issue, is simply something I couldn't let slide.

Yeah, I'm with you oryzan, Having a 25 INT at that level is absurd, not even sure how you can get it there, start at 18. Unless you are playing a Pixie (+6 Int, +1 at lvl 4), or one of the +4 races (Janni, Ogre Mage) and got a headband of Intellect.

Human wizard with 18 in int taking the +2 bonus you get in pathfinder, then add +1 to int on lvl 4 and get a headband of vast intelligence +4. It's even within the standard treasure tables for a lvl 7 character. Sell your gear and buy a headband.
Also, as I've mentioned several times before, the DM is running an "epic campaign". Everything is harder, especially the encounters, so we've got some compensation in the form of house rules and a bit more slack.
I prefer it by the books, but the DM had his own style, and that's ok because we made our compromises before we started playing.


Actually, I've spent about as much time as I'm willing to discussing this, so I probably won't reply any longer to this thread.

Thanks to all who've shared their thoughts on this topic.

 

[Betote]

Is the DM right? Yes. It's his game.

If you want the rules decisions to be different, run your own game. Then you'll be right.

 

[malkav666]

how about one of those group-themed artifacts (from DMG2 if you have access to it) BUT you don't have to make it all artifact-y if you don't want (just strip it down to basics if you didn't want an artifact).

As an example:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/intheworks_dmg2.pdf

And just call it a ring.

Or if you didn't want it to be artifact-y, call it a ring and drop all the concordance stuff and just stick with the basic stat block.

I believe the OP said they were playing PF/3.x. I think the article you linked is for 4e D&D.

As to the Op's request, here is my shot at it:

Ring of Bling

Properties:

1.) Scaling ring of protection. Deflection bonus is equal to the wielder's character level divided by 4 (rounded up). You can cap this if you want to limit the power of the ring. I recommend capping it somewhere in the +3 to +5 range.

2.)Intelligent magical item with an expansive knowledge of lost treasures. It's primary goal is to guide its wielder to those treasures. It cannot speak, but it can provide visions, and empathetic communication with it's wielder. I am unsure as to what it's ego/int/cha should be, but I don't imagine it will need high scores to accomplish it's goals. I think most players would be on board with hunting down lost treasures.

This second function should not be a dominating factor of play. But it should come up every few levels, perhaps seeding a quest that may lead the group to some wealth. This allows for two things: It gives you a tool to seed any adventure site you want as a DM, and it gives the players the option of going on side quests. May not seem like a big deal at first, but it can come in real handy when your group is stagnating or needs a break from the main arc.

I would use the visions, and empathy very vaguely, so that the group has to search out answers if they want the loot. Intentional vagueness will also more than likely get the whole group in on the hunt. If it turns out you were too vague, you can always toss another clue in the form of another communication from the item, or an outside source.

Hope you figure out what you need.

love,

malkav

 

[Wik]

Malkav... I think you posted a reply on the wrong thread.

 

[Nyeshet]

We already have a portion of our group fund set aside for a healing wand or two. ... I always considered 1D8+1 healing more valuable than 1D8+5. For out-of-combat that is. Haven't really deliberated on it. For in-combat healing a higher lvl spell is a must imho. especially in this campaign where we get hits for more than 15 damage most of the time. ... Either way, one house rule in this campaign is that healing potions are 50%, so a cure serious wounds potion costs 375 gp, and we've been quaffing dozens of those so far. A wand is better though, but a lvl 3 wand costs more than 11 k without crafting. With crafting, and between the four of us the group fund could easily cover it though.

A Pal 7 with the minimum Cha I might expect of such (16) and taking into account 'great renown' should have a cleric cohort of 6th level. If the cleric has the healing domain, all curative spells they cast are treated as if empowered. Nothing in the description states this would not be the case for such a cleric using a wand. So you could get the equivalent of Empowered Cure Serious Wounds for the cost of 6750 gp. [375 * 3 (spell lv) * 6 (cleric level)]. If the DM allows the cleric to create the wand as if a lower level (level 1), then you could get a wand of Cure Serious Wounds (as a level 1 caster) for 1125 gp - and this will be empowered when used by the cleric (so long as the cleric has the healing domain). 3d8+1 averages to (4.5*3 +1) or 14.5. Empowered this would work out to an average of 21.75 hp healed each usage. Of course, if the DM does not allow purposely lower casting, or if you wish the full advantage of a full level wand of cure serious wounds (at the cleric's 6th level), then while it will cost the 6750 gp mentioned above, it will be healing 19.5 (or 29.25 when empowered, presuming a healing domain cleric is using it).

 

[haakon1]

IMO what my DM says is ridiculous. A wizard could take the leadership feat and attract followers. Not because he's a good leader(he does get a penalty for low cha to his leadership score so I have no idea what the DM is on about, really!), but because he's powerful, knowledgeable and very intelligent, he would attract followers and a cohort different than a paladin would. Do you guys agree?

I agree with you. I've seen real life near-autistic genius attract followers (in academia and in the tech industry).

But I'm make your character use his prime cohort spot for a "business manager" or personal valet, secretary, or even lover, someone to be a go-between between your character and the world. You know, someone to apologize when your character accidentally does an experiment that kills their pet, or gets angry at their slow apprenticing and throws a chair -- in general, to manage your character into being someone others can live with.

And I'd make that be an non-adventuring major domo who runs your mage's tower (or whatever), not a meat shield for your adventures.

Two reasons for that:
1) It's what I've seen in the real world, and in fiction.
2) It's kinda fun.
3) I'm the DM, so I do what I think makes sense, even if I said there were only two reasons. I'd do this either with an OOC aside, or just by running the NPC world, with quitting followers and so forth, until it worked out how I think it should.

 

[OberonViking]

The toughness feat adds 3HP +1 HP/HD FYI. so for a wizard with 16 con and the toughness feat it's 1D6+3+1+1 = 6-11 HP per hd.

You have the Toughness feat a bit confused:
You gain +3 hit points. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional +1 hit point. If you have more than 3 Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level)

So the Toughness feat adds 3HP +1 HP/each HD beyond 3rd.

It's been an interesting thread. I've had a player ask me about taking Leadership. I told him I'd look it up as I'd heard it could be a game-breaker.

The big difference with the feat in Pathfinder is that the cohort is an NPC. I think that is VERY significant, and it hasn't been considered much in this thread.