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Armor for wizards

Erekose13

Explorer
I am trying to find a way to get my martial wizard (soon to be the first eldritch knight) into armor. That darn spell failure chance is killing me. I'd like to look at some options to reduce the penalty. What I was thinking was a slight addition to some of the LEW feats we already have (bolded below). Alternatively I could work up a single feat (or chain) for just this purpose, or I could propose an armor enhancement.

Armored Casting [General] - Approved.
Through focused training and practice, you are able to apadt your somatic components while casting in light armor.
Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Light), Light Armor Optimization, BAB +3
Benefit: When wearing light armor, decrease the arcane spell failure chance by 10%
Special: Medium armor made of mithril counts as light armor for the purpose of interacting with this feat.

[sblock=Original Post]
Light Armor Optimization [General]
Through focused training and practice, you are able to get more benefit out of light armor.
Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Light), BAB +1
Benefit: When wearing light armor, increase its Max Dex bonus by 1 and decrease its Armor Check penalty by 1. Decrease the arcane spell failure chance by 10%(5?). Increase the Armor bonus of the armor by 1 instead of reducing the Armor Check penalty if this reduction would reduce the penalty below 0.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of his bonus feats. Medium armor made of mithril counts as light armor for the purpose of interacting with this feat.
-Created by IcyCool

Greater Light Armor Optimization [General]
Through focused training and practice, you are able to get more benefit out of light armor.
Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Light), Light Armor Optimization, BAB +3
Benefit: When wearing light armor, increase its Max Dex bonus by 1 and decrease its Armor Check penalty by 1. Decrease the arcane spell failure chance by 10%(5?). Increase the Armor bonus of the armor by 1 instead of reducing the Armor Check penalty if this reduction would reduce the penalty below 0. These reductions and bonuses are cumulative with (stack with) those granted by Light Armor Optimization.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of his bonus feats. Medium armor made of mithril counts as light armor for the purpose of interacting with this feat.
-Created by IcyCool​

Nah that is too much for good feats. Current proposal:

Armored Casting [General]
Through focused training and practice, you are able to apadt your somatic components while casting in light armor.
Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Light), Light Armor Optimization, BAB +3
Benefit: When wearing light armor, decrease the arcane spell failure chance by 10%Special: Medium armor made of mithril counts as light armor for the purpose of interacting with this feat.

Or:

Casting, Lesser: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 10%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +2 bonus.
Casting: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 20%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +4 bonus.
[/sblock]
 
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Rystil Arden

First Post
I don't think I like the Light Armour Optimisation feats, simply because light armour already has such an edge over the other types already. Now, a Medium Armour Optimisation feat? That I could get behind. Also, even if you allowed feats to increase the Max Dex and decrease the ACP, they usually shouldn't reduce the ASF chance. I would suggest an armour enhancement or perhaps a special material, a crystal with a ley link to the towers, that focuses on lowering ASF more than mithral due to its mystic properties, even though it actually increases the ACP.
 

Bront

The man with the probe
You could always make an "Armored Casting" feat, that requires armor proficiency, and armor optimization and that would then add a 10% arcane spell failure reduction as well (or 5% for light, 10% for medium, 15% for heavy perhaps)
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Oh, darn. Looks like I didn't realise we actually already have those feats. :lol: Well I would have been against them for being a bad idea already. Definitely I am against adding to them to make them even stronger :lol:
 

Erekose13

Explorer
So this:
Armored Casting [General]
Through focused training and practice, you are able to apadt your somatic components while casting in light armor.
Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Light), Light Armor Optimization, Armored Casting, BAB +3
Benefit: When wearing light armor, decrease the arcane spell failure chance by 10%Special: Medium armor made of mithril counts as light armor for the purpose of interacting with this feat.

Or like this:

Casting, Lesser: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 10%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +2 bonus.
Casting: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 20%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +4 bonus.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Those look about right. You could probably get away with make the Lesser Casting a +1, though then it would be a no-brainer for some builds. The 20% enhancement looks right at +4 though.
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Rystil Arden said:
Oh, darn. Looks like I didn't realise we actually already have those feats. :lol: Well I would have been against them for being a bad idea already. Definitely I am against adding to them to make them even stronger :lol:
You could start a proposal to get rid of them.
 


Rystil Arden

First Post
Erekose13 said:
yeah mithril chain shirt + lesser casting = 0% spell failure. that right there should be 10,000.
now should they stack?
Mithral Chain should most likely stack with Lesser Casting. You may want to make the Casting enhancements fail to stack with the feat, however, if you propose both.
 


Rystil Arden

First Post
Erekose13 said:
No I'll just propose one or the other. But should the 10% bonus stack with the 20% bonus?
Ohhhhh, that's what you meant. I would say definitely not. It's a like bonus. You can't buy Lesser Fire Resist and Fire Resist and add them together, or Lesser Silent Moves and Silent Moves, or Lesser Fortification and Fortification, etc.
 


Velmont

First Post
I would rather pu the 10% at higher level, +2, or maybe even +3. Spell failure is the only way to prevent a wizard or a sorcerer to not wear an armor, so I would expect an armor without spell failure to cost around the same as the bracer of armor of the same value.

A mithral chainshirt +1 of lesser casting would cost only 5100gp to offer the same protection of a bracer of armor +5, and that, without spell failure or any other kind of penalty.

A mithral Breastplate +1 of greater casting would cost only 29 200gp to offer the same protection of a bracer of armor +6 (36 000 gp), and that, without spell failure or any other kind of penalty. A bit more reasonnable, but following that logic, I think it would be better to have that:

Casting, Lesser: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 10%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
Casting: reduce the arcane spell failure chance by 20%.
Faint Transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +5 bonus.

Now, if we want to offer to our spellcaster cheaper AC armor bonus, that's another thing, but I don't like much that idea. For higher cost, I don't mind. And it would worth the cost, as you can put other enchantment on your armor that the bracer cannot have (like Shadow or Fire Protection) and free the bracer slot (if you want to do an arcane archer with greater barcer of archery).
 

Erekose13

Explorer
Armor also has other penalties to spellcasters. The armor check penalty applies to all attacks (and damage?) if you are not proficient in the armor type. So it generally costs either a feat or at least 1 non-caster class level to get rid of that side of things.
 

Velmont

First Post
Erekose13 said:
Armor also has other penalties to spellcasters. The armor check penalty applies to all attacks (and damage?) if you are not proficient in the armor type. So it generally costs either a feat or at least 1 non-caster class level to get rid of that side of things.

True for the mithral breastplate, who would give a 1 point penalty, but the mithral chainshirt have no armor check penalty.
 

Erekose13

Explorer
Of note is that Monte Cook has created a similar armor enhancement in the Book of Eldritch Might 2. Note one of the big limitations on these are the spell requirements.

BoEM2 said:
Spellcasting: This armor or shield bears a special ensorcellment
to make it easier to use while casting spells. Reduce
arcane spell failure chances by 15 percent when using this
armor or shield.
Caster Level: 13th; Prerequisites: Craft Magical Arms
and Armor, mage armor, limited wish; Market Price: +2 bonus

Superior Spellcasting: The magic within this armor or
shield is so potent, arcane spellcasters can use it with no
spell-failure chance.
Caster Level: 17th; Prerequisites: Craft Magical Arms
and Armor, mage armor, wish; Market Price: +4 bonus
 

Velmont

First Post
Honestly, I favor the feat over the enchantment, as the feat have an idea of training behind it. If you take that feat, and the two prerequisit feat that you suggest, it show you have trained so long with ligth armor that it doesn't affect any more you casting. I like that flavor idea, rather than a cheaper and more powerfull version of bracer of armor (only bad side of the armor, it is the weight, as many wizard have low strenght, but a mithral chain sgirt is light enough for even a Str 8 character.) I fear that we will see many wizard in armor when they reach higher level, when i would rather see mainly Eldritch Knight type caster with armors.

If it was me, go for the feat rather than the armor enchantment.
 
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Rystil Arden

First Post
Velmont said:
True for the mithral breastplate, who would give a 1 point penalty, but the mithral chainshirt have no armor check penalty.
All my casters who can afford them get mithral bucklers for just this reason.

These light armour optimisation feats that already exist are actually pretty crazy in that way too though though. Why would anyone ever take Dodge again? Light Armour Optimisation + Mithral Chain Shirt == +1 AC for sure and possibly +2 AC once you raise your Dex enough.
 

Velmont

First Post
Rystil Arden said:
These light armour optimisation feats that already exist are actually pretty crazy in that way too though though. Why would anyone ever take Dodge again? Light Armour Optimisation + Mithral Chain Shirt == +1 AC for sure and possibly +2 AC once you raise your Dex enough.

Because dodge is a pre-requisit of some other feats.
Because dodge stack with armor optimisation
Because you can use dodge with another type of armor

But it is true that dodge become obsolete for most ligth armor wearer, like rogue and rangers.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Velmont said:
Because dodge is a pre-requisit of some other feats.
Because dodge stack with armor optimisation
Because you can use dodge with another type of armor

But it is true that dodge become obsolete for most ligth armor wearer, like rogue and rangers.
And Rogues and Rangers, the light armour wearers, are often the intended users of the Dodge feat to begin with (as it has a Dex prereq). And while its true that Dodge stacks with Armour Optimisation, there's another second Armour Optimisation feat which also stacks, so unless you plan on spending three feats on the matter, you would just take the two of those for at least +2 and possibly +4 AC.

The problem is that light armour is already more powerful than all the other types of armour over all, in the long term (though obviously it isn't the only answer for all builds, just in general). These feats exacerbate this problem :uhoh:
 

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