Ars Magica d20

[Narfellus]

I HAVE stopped by AtS in the past and downloaded every single thing i could find, including copying and pasting story hooks into a word document for future reference. Great stuff.

As for the legates, i would actually leave well enough alone and let them cast cleric spells as per the PHB, but Midnight style, with a predilection toward War, Chaos, Evil, Trickery, and other such domains.

The more complicated Arsd20 aspects would be left for PC's.

 

[Nifelhein]

I see your point, but what I acutlaly want is the felxibility and unity of the magic system as a whole to all spellcasters, deeveloping limits to the paradigms is what proved though to me, i have even thought about a edvotion roll for substitution of the vis in some situations, if sucessful the check would make a divine intereference be the source of the permanency of the effect.

This coudl easily take care of the biggest problem.

 

[Narfellus]

I see what you mean. If you want Arsd20 Midnight, persay, you want it for channelers AND legates for unity. This is certainly possible, but as you aware will take a considerable more amount of legwork for the DM. Having the legates pray for Divine Vis is a great idea though, and the legates could/should have it in spades.

 

[Nifelhein]

One idea I thought for adapting it to midnight is to change the names from latin to elvish, would make sense with the setting too. Problem might be if the name comes to be too hard to speak.

 

[Narfellus]

Hah! Yes, we could probably look up Tolkein's dictionary and find the exact conversion. The only problem is that i've been studying the Ars 4th so much that i pretty much have the RegoImaginem's memorized at a glance. Changing it to elvish would throw me off for a while.

EDIT: Then again, the human channelers have a long tradition of hermeticism as well. Is their Latin-ish words really old Pellurian? Or Dornish? Or Sarcosan?

 

[Narfellus]

Nifelhein,
How much of the spell system should we think about incorporating? Ars Magica might be too complicated for its own good in some aspects. For instance, spending XP to learn and write books by the season is very involved. This goes above and beyond the simple allottment of skill points and feats that DnD is designed for.

Then there's Certamen, Concentration (DnD has this too but i didn't incorporate it fully, yet) Finesse, Magic Theory (which is just Knowledge Arcana i suppose) Parma Magic (not sure what this is, i think maybe magic resistance), Penetration, Casting Speed, Basic Targeting Roll (a ranged touch attack?) Parma Resistance, Longevity potions, Lab Rolls, and my personal favorite...Wizard's Twilight.

Most of these things are probably incorporated already into d20 under different names and/or formats, with special emphasis in Ars to highlight the important stuff.

I've already stripped personality traits and Flaws and Virtues into my home games because they're so great. Heck, if anyone but me knew how to play Ars I would do that, but players are lazy sometimes.

 

[Nifelhein]

Narfellus,

i think we can port most of the system without much problem, for instance i don't see why we should worry about Certmén, since I don't think the proposal is to have magic traditions be so widespread and respectful as to accept that kind of duel, concentration is the easiest element of those, since it creates the lesser of all troubles, magic theory is the best match for Knowledge Arcana or maybe spellcraft, or maybe both, no big deal, parma magic is a trick one, my first reaction was to make it a skill then I realized that if we want magic to be a part of the game and not controlling it we have to accept the idea of spells allowing saves most of the time.

Then Parma magic could be made into another technique, then you would cast a parma corpus to try and create a repulsion like effect on all humanoids around you, this is what I think might chime in easiest.

Penetration is too deep in the Ars system in my opinion, casting speed could be taken care differently, no fast cast spells, for example, but you could always ready an action and since you will get a save, that perdo corpus spell is not that terrible, after all, it would not allow one otherwise.

What i think we have to think about is lab, longevity potions and D&D magical items, this needs some working to make both into a coherent whole.

As for Wizard's Twilight, i have not read much of it but I guess it can be implemented, with the right thoughts and concerns, in midnight it could be attached to the astiraxes and their ability to find magic emanations, for example.

You should really try a kind of Ars d20 without telling your players, start them as commoners and let thing sgo slowly, much like starting a Mage: The Ascencion game before the awakening.

 

[Narfellus]

The actual mechanics of Wizard's Twilight in Ars is somewhat convoluted, but the theory is sound. When you critically fail a spell (botched) you have a chance to acquire twilight. This can be a boon or a bane to your character, giving you insight, or stealing some permanent sanity. Regardless, when you acquire a certain amount you join the hereafter. In Midnight, this could result in joining the halo of souls or becoming an incorporeal Fell, maybe.

As for lab, that is definitely needed. I personally don't like the 3.5 rules for Crafting items. It makes them too mundane. It's harder in Midnight, so that's a plus. You also need Nexuses for items sometimes, which can double maybe as a source of vim.

Ars also has excellent rules for crafting items, gaining apprentices, summoning a familar (exquisite details) and other such aspects of magic that typical fantasy systems glaze over.
The more i read over Ars Magica the more i realize what a deeply intricate game it is, and just fun to read. That was a quibble i had with ELOM, it wasn't "fun" to read, it felt like a chore.

 

[Nifelhein]

Interesting... I haev to read more of those rules, sicne I just began with the spell chapter. I have always heard that the best magi system ever seen was Ars magica, ever since I started playing back in the 1st year of 2nd edition.

I hate 3.5 rules for crafting too.

 

[Narfellus]

My suggestion would be to take time and really comb over the book. The Flaws and Virtues are great for filling in backgrounds, and can be used easily in d20. There is a detailed system for character personalities and traits, and even the GMing section has some good tips on how to run a game. What really differs in Ars is the combat, magic and experience points. I actually like some of their rules better, but in d20 i like the simplicty of "higher is better." There's just no way i could teach my handful of players of how to adopt a completely new system. The Magic will be more than enough to twist their noggins at first, especially when they try to ready spells or cast spontaneous.

Speaking of which, i'm not sure if i recall in the magic system a way of "blending" techniques and forms. Seems logical and simple enough to me, but if you come across that passage let me know.