• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Ars Magica - Experiences

Ars Magica

I think Ars Magica is a system that benefits more than most from a good DM. Also , it requires a great deal of preparation to do justice to Mythic Europe.

I've always wanted to play Ars Magica with a really good DM in a really detailed campaign. With an average DM, I'd rather play D&D.

Ken
 

log in or register to remove this ad

TheAuldGrump

First Post
Ars Magica has the best magic system for an RPG that I have ever found. Incredibly flexible, with a wonderful feel.

I ran a campaign for two years, and very much enjoyed the experience. It helps if you are familiar with mediaeval history (and one White Wolf author claims that he passed a college level history class using Ars Magica supplements as his reading material....) But the real joy is the magic.

Mages are not balanced against other characters, instead each player makes up a mage, a companion (non wizard adventurer) and a couple of grogs (sword fodder and meat shields :p ). The group creates the 'adventuring' party out of these characters - with each player using one of their characters, and maybe having a grog as well (wizards are still kinda squishy).

Time is generally tracked in seasons, mages get experience by sitting in their labs and libraries, and are often loathe to leave their studies. (The only game where I have seen players arguing against taking their most powerful character). I have seen PCs get old and die as time passed. Covenants likewise can grow old and fade, as their mages get more involved in their own personal interests, bicker among themselves, and lord it over one another's apprentices.

Politics are often a cause for adventure, as is getting rare ingredients, or trying to get the wherewithal to keep the covenant afloat.

I may be making it sound a great deal duller than it was - we had a very good time, and the various politics within the Order of Hermes kept rising up to bite people in unexpected places. :)

The Auld Grump
 

Yair

Community Supporter
I'm a huge ArM fun. I played a few short campaigns since, oh, about 1989 I think - but could never get a really long-term game going. And yes, I'm nearly always the DM.

I really like ArM's setting, but I don't overly like the history aspect of it - I enjoy more the mythic elements. My favored version of the setting is more like "inspired by the real world", rather than re-creating medieval life: think Clash of the Titans, The Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Spirited Away - that's more like an ArM game to my liking (a little less oomph may be needed to support a long-term game, though).

I also like that experience and aging almost make sense, and the magic system is incredibly flexible and fun to play with. Raw vis (resources your wizard needs and covets) is also fun to struggle over. However, I dislike ArM's extensive book-keeping; if I could find a way to preserve the flexibility and richness of the experience and magic system without it I would, but I can't think of a way to do that.

I was always interested in playing this game because the setting and mechanics seemed well thought out, so I jumped at the chance to play during convention. You can probably all see where I'm going with this - I had a horrible time at the convention.

We were all apprentices under the mages in the tower that awoke one day to find them all gone. The majority of the time was spent with the GM's girlfriend (who was playing a vampire that captured the mages and was the wife of the local noble) raining down magical attacks on the group that almost killed us. Other than to keep the story going, it really didn't make any sense why she didn't kill us outright if she knew who we were and that we were trying to get back our mentors. It didn't make logical sense that the apprentices were able to do something the 'powerful mages' weren't capable of doing.

The entire adventure left me with a bad opinion of the setting and system - I had thought that Ars Magica was more 'historical' and that the mages were more subtle with their magic. With all of this show of power by the vampire and the obvious differences in power levels, it seemed to me to be just another D&D game with a setting that didn't match the rules.

Mark
You had a very poor introduction to Ars Magica. This adventure didn't really introduce you to the setting, and it sounds like the DM sucked. In the standard setting wizards are usually more subtle, even though they are much more powerful, and the typical adventure heavily involves at least some medieval or earlier elements (whether they be historical or mythical - and often both).
 

I did not care for my experiences with Ars Magica 5th Edition. I have played in a tabletop campaign and a play-by-email campaign, both run by a friend who went head-over-heels for it.

In my opinion, "playing" Ars Magica felt more like doing homework, or simulating university politics than a game. If you think you might want to play ArM5, I recommend you instead go back to school to get a doctorate degree in history or chemistry, then suffer through post-doc work while trying to find a job, ending up as a tenured professor with post-docs working under you. The pinnacle would be becoming dean of the department with profs working under you. Seriously--you'd probably have more fun and you'd actually be affecting change in your life.

The "idea" of ArM vs. the reality of ArM can be summed up by this xkcd comic: xkcd: Science Montage

Instead of adventuring, your "powerful" professor, I mean, magi sits in a university, I mean, covenant researching or politicing. You end up spending most of your adventuring time playing as undergrads and post-docs, I mean, grogs and companions. They get spell components and fight off badies. The rest of your play time will be spent trying to figure out the ridiculously complicated, I mean, flexible rules for creating spells and magic items.

As I remember it, combat was pretty deadly too. If you got into a fight, someone in your party was going to die and they weren't coming back. This served to reinforce the point that the wizard wants to stay at home: it takes hours to make a magi and that time would be lost forever the first time they found themselves in a fight. That fragility also means you don't want to emotionally invest in the characters you actually do the heroic stuff with, the supposedly bit player companions and grogs.

The same problem, as I see it, with fragile characters exists in original and basic D&D. But there it is mitigated by the ease of character creation and the fun and easy mechanics that make up the core gameplay. ArM's mechanical budget apparently was all spent on the magic system and the adventuring mechanics are pretty lame.

It has been several years since I've played and I don't have my dust-covered core rulebook to reference. So this post is based on my memory and emotional scars. Apologies for any factual errors. I'll have to flip through the book and the old play logs I kept to see if it was as bad as I remember.

The final problem is that the core book went out of print for a long stretch, and the supplements have short runs and go out of print quickly too. So even if you really want to play it was pretty much impossible to do so for cover price for a couple years.



tl;dr: ArM is a game for academic nerds who like to spend more time twiddling dials than engaging in heroics. ArM isn't popular for the same reason old-school wargames aren't popular: too much work for too little payoff.

P.S. I think Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying has succeeded where ArM failed, but this post is already too long to get into it. I recommend you take a close look at it before investing too much time in ArM.
 

MarkChevallier

First Post
tl;dr: ArM is a game for academic nerds who like to spend more time twiddling dials than engaging in heroics. ArM isn't popular for the same reason old-school wargames aren't popular: too much work for too little payoff.

Wow! Deliberately controversial much?

There's some minor truths in this; the game isn't, at its core, about encouraging you to be heroic. If you're heroic, in Ars Magica, you run a fairly high risk of coming to a bad end. Some might suggest (in fact, I will) that this makes heroism more meaningful, as well as more thrilling.

Much of the rest simply isn't true: Ars Magica by default is a game about slowly acquiring power, but the power you gain isn't the power to divert funding from a rival's research program (as a college dean might), it's the power to destroy an army with a wave of your hand; to pull a dragon out of the sky and smash its brains on a valley floor; to create a fertile plain where a desert once was. All that kind of thing: you know, actual cosmic power. Magic like it is sometimes portrayed in novels, not like it usually is in games.

Some other games attempt this; some games give it to you relatively cheaply. Ars Magica doesn't. An archmage will probably be two or three hundred years old, and he'll have spent much of that time studying and experimenting. I can certainly understand not wanting to play through that study, but I find it a little ironic any roleplaying fan calling any other "an academic nerd". Oh, how things have changed!

I'm in the middle of running an Ars Magica campaign; we're trying it as it is meant to be played - more-or-less troupe style, slow advancement, trying to turn an abandoned border fort into a legacy worthy of a covenant of magi. But despite what some might say, we've had a LOT of drama, high-jinks, and even heroics. I mean, I could give anecdotes, but we know how dull it can be listening to someone tell you about his awesome campaign. It's awesome, okay? A little trust goes a long way. :p

As I remember it, combat was pretty deadly too. If you got into a fight, someone in your party was going to die and they weren't coming back. This served to reinforce the point that the wizard wants to stay at home: it takes hours to make a magi and that time would be lost forever the first time they found themselves in a fight. That fragility also means you don't want to emotionally invest in the characters you actually do the heroic stuff with, the supposedly bit player companions and grogs.

Combat in Ars Magica 5th edition is brutal, but not especially deadly; most battles, if you lose, you'll end up bleeding to death that night or at some point in the week. If the enemy doesn't grant you a merciful release. But, given that this game is about magi, they can heal you (although healing isn't as cheap or easy as it is in most fantasy games); this means in practice, the game gives characters who've been defeated in combat a way to recover and not be ruined.

In my own campaign (which is awesome, by the way), we've had one character killed outright in combat, by a gnarly stone demon thing. One other character died slowly after being poisoned, taking a month to perish, because the magus healer didn't have a spell that could handle the poisoning. So that's two characters, in the space of around, I don't know, 10 long sessions representing perhaps three years of game time.

People certainly get emotionally invested in the grogs; the very fact they're bit players means that their characterisation can be strong instead of subtle, and hence, memorable and fun in an immediate way. Companions are essentially just as much your PC as your magus is, so it's inaccurate to describe them as bit players. They can be very very cool.

In short, it's a great game. It may not be to your taste, but that's the world isn't it? For some reason, there isn't one thing that everyone thinks is fantastic.
 

ArghMark

First Post
Thanks for your suggestion, TikkchikFenTikktik! Indeed I enjoy Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying a lot; it is my favorite setting and system (2e at least) after Ars Magica, though the magic in that is far more dangerous to the user. Despite being a teacher, I'd like to think most of my players are in fact not intellectual nerds any more than most people who game :D.


Certainly your post highlights one of the sides of the issue, and quite possibly the reason why people can get turned off by Ars, in that the experience and goals seem to not be overly heroic.

Much as I expected, Ars creates two sides; a 'Yes, I love it' and a 'No, I hate it' group, for different reasons. Any idea why this might be?
 

I didn't expect anyone here to take offense at being called an academic nerd. If twisting dials makes you happy that's great; you probably won't have the same problems with ArM that I do.
 

Achan hiArusa

Explorer
I'm not a fan of Shadowrun in most of its incarnations, so I had toyed with the idea of running an Ars Magica/Cyberpunk 2020 crossover since the systems are fairly compatiable.
 

Woas

First Post
If only we could use this internet tool thingy to actually, maybe, just possibly find people living near enough get a game together... or via some sort of relay chat system.
 

If only we could use this internet tool thingy to actually, maybe, just possibly find people living near enough get a game together... or via some sort of relay chat system.

ArM is very suitable to play-by-mail, especially for character creation, covenant creation and management, and the wizard-sitting-in-a-tower parts.

This is 80% of the game, in my experience. It is so abstract, time-consuming, and personal (most of the time no one else needs to give input on how you are twisting your wizard's dials) that doing it around a table is boring and distracting. It's like trying to do math homework in the middle of a busy cafeteria.

The other 20%--combat and adventuring mechanics--is also pretty abstract, so play-by-mail/chat/skype shouldn't be a problem. There is no real need for everyone to be leaning over a grid full of minis at the same table.

I should add that I was part of a play-by-email ArM5 campaign that lasted a couple years right after ArM5 came out.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top