Art of the Peel

[Regicide]

Not ALL monsters are intelligent and go for the strikers. in fact, my kobolds tend to lob all their javelins right off the bat at the big shiny thing with the big axe....and the dragonshield guys rush them for glory and honor.

Mine run away and get more kobolds. Ya gotta be pretty stupid to attack someone bigger and stronger than you who has a 3 foot length of razor sharp steel in their hand.

DnD however is founded on the fact that opponents are too stupid to be able to gauge the fact that they have no chance to win the fight they're throwing themselves into. You don't think the mountain of corpses needed for the players to get to grind to level 30 were from FAIR fights do you? That would be... heroic.

 

[Mengu]

If the paladin's mark decides to take the Divine Challenge damage, and provoke an oppotunity attack from the Paladin to get to the Wizard, I see nothing wrong with this. It means the paladin is now dishing out about triple the damage he would normally be inflicting if the mark were to choose to attack the paladin.

Strikers are the masters of movement, and should be able to move some place that makes it difficult for the enemy to get to them without provoking attacks. The wizard really should not be staying in melee range of the enemy very long. If the enemy is that far forward in the middle of the party, after taking a load of damage from the paladin, he will be shanked in short order by the Rogue or another striker.

In my experience, the enemy Brutes and/or Soldiers tie up the Defenders, while the Skirmishers and Minions try to use their mobility to get to the Strikers. If the Wizard walks up forward to toss a blast attack, the enemy Brute may be tempted to wallop him.

 

[Danceofmasks]

It's not just intelligence, it's experience.
If there's a monster that has a level 4 version, and is a level 15 version, they would have learned along the way what's a threat.
I.e. concentrated fire on the wizard first, and make sure he's dead dead rather than unconscious.

If anyone asks, yes I played 3e that way too.
I was a mage player who considers a DM crap if intelligent foes don't attempt to annihilate me first.

 

[JDillard]

What kinds of monsters is the DM using? If you're seeing a lot of skirmishers, then you should expect that the strikers are having more trouble. Skirmishers are designed to be more mobile, and more capable of getting around the defender to get to the strikers.

Conversely, brutes and soldiers are usually slower. A ranged ranger should be able to outpace them, a rogue or twf ranger will generally have a decent enough AC that them focusing on him is not as effective (particularly with the -2 from being marked), the warlock should be all over the battlefield and constantly getting his movement cover bonus. And the wizard? Should be about 10 squares from the battle, dropping mini-nukes or slowing the monsters down so they can't even get to him.

And lastly, if the monsters *are* always ignoring the pally, it's not the worst thing in the world. He turns into basically leader doing near-striker damage. Put himself between monsters to get OA's when they try to get past him to anyone else, drop lay on hands or healing potions on hurt party members, attack with things like bolstering strike to give allies bonuses to AC, use utilities that allow him to literally take attacks that were intended for other party members... these are all very good things.

 

[JDillard]

double post

 

[NilesB]

Switch to a two-handed weapon? You get more damage and either the lower defenses don't matter 'cause the monsters are attacking the striker over you or you've found a way to tank again.

 

[Ed Gentry]

As Carpe (hey man ) pointed out, Divine Challenge differs from the fighter's mark. It does NOT give the Paladin an OA on the challenged monster.

That said, I still think this is remarkably effective. I'm playing a striker now (lock) and am so incredibly mobile that it's pretty easy to get away from monsters that come after me. The defenders seem to have no real trouble keeping the monsters on them.

 

[FadedC]

Hmm....I noticed with my fighter that it was often hard to prevent people from attacking other melee combatants as well. However I'm not sure this really so awful, because when I'm ignored I do more damage then a striker and the person they are attacking often becomes as hard to hit as a defender. So it seems like win/win for my team and lose/lose for the monsters.

For example if there is a ac 17 striker or leader next to me, if they attack him instead of me then his ac goes up to 19, which is the same as mine. Meanwhile I'm now doing double damage, with bracers of the mighty blow and a +1 bastard sword, that means I'm doing 2d10+12 a round at low level, which is way more then the striker they are attacking. So essentially instead of facing 1 striker they are now facing 1 striker and 1 uber striker, and they aren't getting any advantage for doing so.

 

[blargney the second]

My minotaur maul fighter has no trouble at all getting monsters to stay focused on him. 2d8+4 is hard to ignore.

 

[DracoSuave]

Divine Challenge doesn't allow OAs....

.... but if the striker's not an idiot and stands far enough away that the monster has to move to get to him then the pally -does- get the movement OA. Cause, you know, they do. And OAs are just as useful to a pally as a fighter.