Artful Dodger Dead ?

[Istar]

Can anyone tell me why you would be an Artful Dodger instead of a Cunning Sneak.

With CS you can take Dark Deeds Armour (L14) and say L11.
Then you have virtually CA and "Hidden" 99% of the time.

With a -5 to all Defences most of the time.
You dont take OA's when you move as you are "Hidden" as well.

Why would anyone want to be an Artful Dodger.

Sly Fourish maybe the only thing I can see.
And of course level 1 - 10 CS is not hugely advantageous.

 

[Aulirophile]

Feats, power riders... think that covers it. Note that you really don't want a high int mod for CS. It overlaps your AC and a NAD with Dex, so boosting it is pointless, so you can still take Sly Flourish and boost your Cha. If I had an epic CS int mod would be 14 (starting 12) and I'd never boost it.

Actually you could make a pretty solid build with Versatile Rogue. At Epic you'd have Cunning Sneak (which, again, only requires 1-2 int mod) and Brutal Scoundrel. You can start as a Half-Orc, get int 12 20 dex, 16 str, all after racials of course...

 

[Istar]

Feats, power riders... think that covers it. Note that you really don't want a high int mod for CS. It overlaps your AC and a NAD with Dex, so boosting it is pointless, so you can still take Sly Flourish and boost your Cha. If I had an epic CS int mod would be 14 (starting 12) and I'd never boost it.

Actually you could make a pretty solid build with Versatile Rogue. At Epic you'd have Cunning Sneak (which, again, only requires 1-2 int mod) and Brutal Scoundrel. You can start as a Half-Orc, get int 12 20 dex, 16 str, all after racials of course...

Maxed out Dex and then chuck everything into Con I reckon.
Or be a CS with high Charisma and still take Sly Flourish, but yeah I think a CS maxing out Int is not smart character building, make it your 3rd stat.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I'd do artful just because the whole 99% sneak stuff is so cheesy, and unheroic.

 

[DracoSuave]

Cause artful dodger is for meleeing more and cunning sneak is not as effective in close quarters, due to most of its attacks being ranged? Also, Cunning Sneak + Sly Flourish = not that great, son.

In theory, disregarding how powers work, this is true.

In practice, when you realize you actually have to use powers to make all this work, it isn't so simple.

Also, and this is going to BLOW your mind:

NOT EVERYONE PLAYS THE CHAR OP TWINK CHARACTER OF THE MONTH.

Some people pick a game element because it fits their idea of how their character plays. The cunning sneak doesn't fit the idea of the Aladdin-type thief who sneaks around, leaps in and out of danger, and acrobaticly handles situations with guile and a bit of charismatic flare. Its powers do not work that way, being geared towards control and manipulation of the opponent--cunning sneak uses sneak rules to get combat advantage; an artful dodger just takes it no matter what the situation, with its plethora of powers which often say, literally 'You have combat advantage.'

They don't worry about hiding OR flanking. They just -get- it out of the blue.

 

[Budalic]

Also, and this is going to BLOW your mind:

NOT EVERYONE PLAYS THE CHAR OP TWINK CHARACTER OF THE MONTH.

Some people pick a game element because it fits their idea of how their character plays. The cunning sneak doesn't fit the idea of the Aladdin-type thief who sneaks around, leaps in and out of danger, and acrobaticly handles situations with guile and a bit of charismatic flare. Its powers do not work that way, being geared towards control and manipulation of the opponent--cunning sneak uses sneak rules to get combat advantage; an artful dodger just takes it no matter what the situation, with its plethora of powers which often say, literally 'You have combat advantage.'

They don't worry about hiding OR flanking. They just -get- it out of the blue.

Actually, CharOppers consider Artful Dodger to be better than Cunning sneak for melee. And melee rogues better than ranged rogues.

Also, concealment only gives -2 penalty.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Artful Dodger and Cunning Sneak are two different builds that do two different things. You should play whichever one appeals to you more. There's no single, right answer.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Artful Dodger and Cunning Sneak are two different builds that do two different things. You should play whichever one appeals to you more. There's no single, right answer.

Thats insanity. THIS IS THE INTERNET! There must be one right answer, and we must argue not make reasonable statements.




Actually I agree with you (hangs head in shame).

 

[Mengu]

I could ask the question, why would anyone play a cunning sneak when you can play an artful dodger or brutal scoundrel? Gaining combat advantage, both with range or with melee is easy enough without cunning sneak. I find the other builds to be stronger than the cunning sneak as they provide both broader options and better damage.

 

[CovertOps]

I built a level 14 Artful Dodger Halfling a few weeks ago with a 31 AC and +12 AC vs. OA for a total of 43 AC moving through melee. Throw in the feat Opportunity Knocks and I can wander anywhere in melee I want granting myself CA then take as many area powers as possible to hit multiple targets and then pick which target takes SA damage. I'm pretty sure such a build is not dead.