Artful Dodger Dead ?

[Joshua Randall]

Wait, I thought Trolls won the internet.

Like cockroaches will eventually inherit the Earth?

 

[Istar]

I'd do artful just because the whole 99% sneak stuff is so cheesy, and unheroic.

Unheroic = Rogue

 

[Istar]

I built a level 14 Artful Dodger Halfling a few weeks ago with a 31 AC and +12 AC vs. OA for a total of 43 AC moving through melee. Throw in the feat Opportunity Knocks and I can wander anywhere in melee I want granting myself CA then take as many area powers as possible to hit multiple targets and then pick which target takes SA damage. I'm pretty sure such a build is not dead.

How do you get +12 vs OA, is there a lot of feats involved in getting that.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I saw a 2nd level drow rogue break 30 AC against OA's this week (power for +cha on AC, Artful dodger, ardent bonus and marked creature). The creatures didn't bother...

 

[Prestidigitalis]

How do you get +12 vs OA, is there a lot of feats involved in getting that.

I don't know how CovertOps did it, but here is one way:

+6 Artful Dodger Charisma bonus (16 + 2 racial + 4 bumps at level 14)
+2 Halfling racial bonus
+2 Defensive Mobility feat (heroic, PHB)
+2 from falcon familiar acquired with Arcane Familiar feat (heroic, AP)

The falcon familiar costs a bit in feats. I favor Bardic Dilettante for the splash of Arcane power source required by Arcane Familiar. For a halfling rogue, I'd probably reflavor the falcon as a smaller bird that was more innocuous -- a songbird maybe. A parrot could be fun too.

I also like the Harlequin Style feat (Dragon 373) which adds your Charisma bonus again to all defenses (not just AC) against any OAs incurred during the initial move phase of the power Deft Strike, and increases that move from 2 squares to 3.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Unheroic = Rogue

Hardly.

 

[Droogie128]

I don't know how CovertOps did it, but here is one way:

+6 Artful Dodger Charisma bonus (16 + 2 racial + 4 bumps at level 14)
+2 Halfling racial bonus
+2 Defensive Mobility feat (heroic, PHB)
+2 from falcon familiar acquired with Arcane Familiar feat (heroic, AP)

The falcon familiar costs a bit in feats. I favor Bardic Dilettante for the splash of Arcane power source required by Arcane Familiar. For a halfling rogue, I'd probably reflavor the falcon as a smaller bird that was more innocuous -- a songbird maybe. A parrot could be fun too.

I also like the Harlequin Style feat (Dragon 373) which adds your Charisma bonus again to all defenses (not just AC) against any OAs incurred during the initial move phase of the power Deft Strike, and increases that move from 2 squares to 3.

You could also throw in another effective +2 if the target is marked.

 

[Istar]

Okay so its a whole pile of feats.

Whereas at L11 the CS gets an effective +5 to all defences for Zero feats.

Not just OA's.

And he is 100% resistant to OA's in melee as he is hidden.

Okay no reason then, besides flavour.

 

[The Human Target]

No, there are more than just flavor reasons and people have mentioned them.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Okay so its a whole pile of feats.

Whereas at L11 the CS gets an effective +5 to all defences for Zero feats.

Not just OA's.

And he is 100% resistant to OA's in melee as he is hidden.

Okay no reason then, besides flavour.

Well, first there are PLENTY of ways to defeat your CS rogue's hidden status or even prevent it from being a meaningful option. Creatures with truesight, tremorsense, or in some cases blindsight or even low-light vision for instance. Hidden doesn't do a thing against area or close attacks either (though admittedly they are rarely used as OAs). Also your CS rogue will be QUITE unlikely to be hidden while moving next to enemies, which means you're going to be taking OAs just like anyone else, while the AD rogue is ignoring them.

They both have their uses. I guess if you consider CS to be strictly superior then play that build. Not everyone entirely agrees.