Arthaus reverts rights to Ravenloft and Gamma World back to Wotc

[TiQuinn]

Today. I went through this a few years ago gobbling up Mystara stuff off of eBay. I assure you that what's available five years later from eBay is in no way comparable.

People will start playing D&D in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is absolutely untrue that they will have full access to Ravenloft material.

I can find stuff going back to the 1st edition all the time. It's not like Swords and Sorcery was out there providing new updates to the original module or the House on Gryphon Hill. People may not have "full access", but if they're interested, it's not that hard, and it's unlikely to be that hard 5 years from now either. Something new is always going to come along. For example, should I be upset that Castle Greyhawk hasn't been updated over the years? Or that Marvel Super Heroes is a bygone memory? (Try running a search on that last one on Ebay! )

And what's more, you're telling people to go to eBay instead of a shop. Ravenloft will simply not be found by much of the audience that would have loved it.

Well, obviously the audience that's here hasn't been enough to support it right now. As for Ebay versus a shop, I'm not really a hardcore "gotta shop at my FLGS or I'm stabbing my hobby in the back" kind of guy. Regardless, there's plenty of fan sites like Fraternity of Shadows, which will still be running. And if they shut down, someone else will come along. Heck, maybe in 5 years, Ravenloft will pop again in print.

 

[freebfrost]

They are? I can go into a randomly selected FLGS and find I6? I can go in and find the 2E Ravenloft material? Eighteen months from now, I can find the 3.*E Ravenloft material?

I don't know about that.

Noble Knight has 155 Ravenloft products available for sale.

I am sure the other online sites like Dragontrove and even eBay have plenty of Ravenloft product available as well...

 

[Teflon Billy]

My first reaction was, "that's a shame," but I quickly became fine with it...

I hear you brother (though I'm only speaking of the Gamma World stuff. My familiarity with Ravenloft began and ended with that 2E Adventure module)

I think that the Gamma World gamemaster's guide was an OK purchase, but the line as a whole? Not so much.

The job they did gutting any fun, coolness or inspiration from the Mutations rules was impressive in its completeness. I'm not sure why they chose this tack, but it was an awful choice.

I think that the most telling commentary I can make on the subject is that Polyhedron Magazine's Omega World was about ten times as good as this version of Gamma World, and it's a magazine minigame.

Darwin's World is a better (Meaning more fun) post-apocalyptic game.

Redline, a trim little volume from the folks at AEG is fantastic in comparison.

I've heard nothing but good about D20 Apocalypse from WotC.

Seeing as Gamma World was dead-last in a pretty competitive race, I can see why they let the license slide.

 

[Alzrius]

Which one, if you don't mind my asking?

Monte was the guy who wrote Vecna Reborn, which was, IIRC, the last Ravenloft adventure.

I'm really sad to see Ravenloft die...again. I really wish we knew whether this was simply because the license is expiring, or if they're terminating it due to lack of financial success, or what. Also, it's sad that the metaplot that was being developed in the Gazetteers is probably never going to be finished now.

Ravenloft has had a fairly rocky history since 3E launched. The Kargatane website was made the official Ravenloft fansite prior to 3E being released, but this was almost immediately halted by SSS licensing the setting, effectively crippling a lot of what the Kargatane was doing (it ended up killing what would have been a great free official adventure they had announced, Death Undaunted, though bits of that later surfaced in some other products).

When 3E Ravenloft products debuted, they ranged from really great to really awful. Furthermore, there seemed to be some sort of struggle between the Kargatane and the people at SSS, which didn't seem to go well for anyone. Errata and web enhancements were released on the Kargatane site, and their message board for asking for clarification quickly became bogged down as the "answer guy" there rapidly became angry and disdainful of people who asked questions in the wrong format (some say that was in character, since he went by the handle of Azalin, but even taking that into account things often went too far).

As it stands, this is still sad news. I'm definately buying the Ravenloft d20 products I don't already own at Gen Con.

The hopeful news is that this isn't necessarily the end, at least not totally. The people at Paizo Publishing have already announced that for Dragon, every January issue will be a "Campaign Classics" issue, like back in #315. That means we'll still get tidbits of Ravenloft material (hopefully of things the d20 materials didn't already cover; #315 gave us some rather lackluster stats for Strahd).

Regarding the Ravenloft IP itself...it doesn't seem inconceivable that it might be licensed again. While WotC will probably never relaunch the line, last I heard their policy about old campaign worlds was that they will license them out to third-parties, but WotC demands the right to be the publishers of the campaign setting book (which seems like a sleazy move to me, since those books are the best sellers of a campaign line, and that way WotC would be taking the lion's share of the profits). However, it strikes me as unlikely that someone else would do that if the line didn't do well under SSS...especially since another relaunch of the setting could confuse gamers about the different "versions" of Ravenloft d20.

I still don't think this is the end though...somehow, some way, the mists will rise again...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I still don't think this is the end though...somehow, some way, the mists will rise again...

If nothing else, I'd like to see the as-yet-unconverted 2E spells (and I think a few monsters) show up in WotC products in the future. In a way, SSS using the license has probably resulted in slightly weaker undead and monster books due to the lack of old Ravenloft material. While not every classic Ravenloft monster is a gem (really, we've officially got too many aquatic undead at this point that are trying to fill the exact same niche), some of the best in D&D history are Ravenloft-specific. Their absence from the Monster Manuals, Fiend Folios, Libris Mortis and so on were all quite obvious.

 

[Banshee16]

That's upsetting about the Ravenloft setting. So, WotC is getting the rights back to make some piss-poor generic book that will be too generic to be any good for the horror fans, and not detailed enough for someone looking to run a more horror-themed game in terms of not providing a good setting to use the rules in?

Personally, I liked the books Arthaus was putting out. The Guide to Shadow Fey is one of my favourites. I can't collect them all, but I have read several, and they were pretty cool.

Is there any data on whether this was due to low sales, or if WotC is simply finally shutting down all their licenses? Hopefully not....the Dragonlance material from Sovereign Press is also the best DL setting material put out....well....ever, aside from the original hardcover in 1E.

Guess the hopes of seeing Planescape, Birthright or Dark Sun eventually see the light of day is essentially nil..

Banshee

 

[M.L. Martin]

That's upsetting about the Ravenloft setting. So, WotC is getting the rights back to make some piss-poor generic book that will be too generic to be any good for the horror fans, and not detailed enough for someone looking to run a more horror-themed game in terms of not providing a good setting to use the rules in?

I really don't think Heroes of Horror had anything to do with it--that book was announced about eight months ago.

Personally, I liked the books Arthaus was putting out. The Guide to Shadow Fey is one of my favourites. I can't collect them all, but I have read several, and they were pretty cool.

The Arthaus books were decidedly hit or miss--and I think it was the 3.5 "conversion" that crippled the line both creatively and financially.

Matthew L. Martin

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I'll honestly say...

I didn't like the Arthaus take on Ravenloft, and I didn't like the final 2E stuff either.

That doesn't mean I'm celebrating and drinking whiskey about it, since he kept the game alive.

As for Gamma World...

Way to turn a diamond into a lump of pig-crap.

Hopefully, WotC will keep Ravenloft on, maybe have Arthaus work in house for them.

As for Gamma World? Buy d20 Apacolypse, Darwin's World 2, and use the old maps and terrian.

You'll be better off.

As for having FFE do it, if you'd seen what they did to Metamorphis Alpha, you wouldn't want them anywhere near Gamma World unless you hated the game.

 

[tetsujin28]

Sure did. But HoH isn't a Ravenloft sourcebook. While I got to do a lot of cool stuff in that book, it still didn't sate my desire to play in the Dark Lords' playground specifically.

Ah, gotcha. I'm actually more interested in HoH than I ever was in Ravenloft. RL always just seemed to be too much of a mishmash.

 

[tetsujin28]

That's upsetting about the Ravenloft setting. So, WotC is getting the rights back to make some piss-poor generic book that will be too generic to be any good for the horror fans, and not detailed enough for someone looking to run a more horror-themed game in terms of not providing a good setting to use the rules in?

Ah, nothing like unfounded assumptions and bile to get the internet going. You did happen to notice that one of the writers of this "piss-poor generic book" is posting in this very thread, and has written for such excellent products as Egyptian Adventures for Green Ronin, didn't you?

Oh, wait. You didn't. That shoe must taste awfully good.