Artificer magic item replenishment

[Obryn]

There is no such limitation! Your one scrap of claimed "evidence" was both A) unrelated and B) wrong anyway!

When you want to use a daily item power, there are two limitations.
1. You must have at least one daily item power "slot" left.
2. The specific item daily power must not have been used yet that day.

You want to introduce a third limitation, for which there is no textual, logical, or fluff support whatsoever:
3. You specifically must not have used that specific item daily power that day.

This argument is silly.

Whoa, take it easy there...

For what it's worth, I can see what he's talking about under the "Daily" rules in the magic item section. It says more or less that a character can't use the same Daily item twice in a day. This could be interpreted as separate from the rule that a Daily item can only work once per day.

I would have a very hard time believing it's RAI, but I can see where a strict reading of the rules would lead someone to his reading.

(Personally, I think it's a clarification rather than a rule, to emphasize that the rule about X daily item uses per day doesn't allow you to use a single daily item multiple times under normal circumstances.)

-O

 

[Runestar]

How is it that other people (Obryn in this case) can put across my very points far more clearly than me, using far fewer words?

I really need to go relearn my english.

 

[Inyssius]

I should probably make it more clear that, when I use exclamation marks, I'm not being entirely serious.

 

[Mad Hamish]

I believe that daily items can only be used 1/day is to cover the case where 1 item has 2 possible daily powers.
So if power A is used power B cannot be used.
I'd consider it a bizarre ruling to say that a recharged item cannot be used by the character who used it before.

 

[DerekSTheRed]

Your forgetting that specific rules trump general rules. The rule you cite in the PHB is a general rule applied to all classes. The artificer's arcane replenishment ability is a specific rule that only applies to an ability of the artificer class. Therefore once an artificer recharges the daily ability of a magic item, any character (including the one who used it previously) can use the daily power of the item again provided he hasn't reached his limit for the milestone.

 

[Runestar]

Your forgetting that specific rules trump general rules. The rule you cite in the PHB is a general rule applied to all classes. The artificer's arcane replenishment ability is a specific rule that only applies to an ability of the artificer class. Therefore once an artificer recharges the daily ability of a magic item, any character (including the one who used it previously) can use the daily power of the item again provided he hasn't reached his limit for the milestone.

Problem is that arcane replenishment makes no such provision, so we cannot be sure if it does indeed allow the PC to circumvent the normal limitation, or if he is still subject to them (because they actually involve 2 separate abilities). Like you said, it simply makes that item's daily power available nothing, it says nothing about allowing the PC in question to ignore the general rules and using it again (so the avenue left is to then pass that item to another player, who could use it).

By now, you are all probably pulling your hair and gnashing your teeth in frustration because I seem to be failing to grasp your key points, but I must stress that I am not arguing here simply for the sake of arguing. I have no idea what wotc intends to achieve with that power. I just wish they had taken the extra effort to explain their powers more clearly, so that there is absolutely no room for alternate interpretations (and posts such as that of the OP's do show that miscommunications can and will occur).

 

[Trevelyan]

People aren't actually referencing to the entire magic item section of the PHB.

A character has one magic ite use per tier, each of which must be used to activate a different item. BUT per page 226 of the PHB:

"Each time you reach a milestone (see page 259), you get one additional use of a magic item daily power. This benefit can be used to activate any magic item daily power that you have not already used this day (even if you've already used a different daily power from that item)"

If Runestar is correct then the Artificier item replenishment power is useless after a single milestone since every character has the ability to use a second daily power from an item after that point. The fact that the Artificier power replenishes after a milestone suggests that this interpretation is not correct.

For anyone who isn't trying to jump through hoops to misinterpret the rules and limit the extent of the power, the Artificier clearly enables characters to reuse the same daily item power.

Aside from which, there are a very small handful of items with more than one daily power to begin with. By Runestar's reading this ability is next to worthless rather than being a useful class feature, limited as it is to a couple of specific items.

 

[mach1.9pants]

That PHB rule must have been written before, or with no knowledge of, the Artificer class feature. Otherwise the poor Art has a pretty useless ability.

I had missed that line on p226, but if I had an Art IMC I would certainly ignore it with respect to the recharge ability

 

[Runestar]

That PHB rule must have been written before, or with no knowledge of, the Artificer class feature. Otherwise the poor Art has a pretty useless ability.

More like the other way round - the designer either was not entirely sure of the core rules when he designed the artificer (since it is fairly weak as is now), or maybe he had intended for it to work the way you envisioned (most likely), but simply stank at attempting to articulate their intentions.

Or possibly a combination of both. Looks like they still haven't learnt everything from the fiascos of 3e (I am looking at you, commoner railgun).

As I said before, I do feel that it should allow for you to use the item daily a 2nd time, but as written, it doesn't.

If Runestar is correct then the Artificier item replenishment power is useless after a single milestone since every character has the ability to use a second daily power from an item after that point. The fact that the Artificier power replenishes after a milestone suggests that this interpretation is not correct.

Not quite. Like I said, you just need to pass them around the party to use. For example, in the 1st encounter, the dwarf fighter uses dwarven plate's daily power. Artificer recharges it, after the 2nd fight, the dwarf gives it to another PC (maybe a paladin) so he can use its daily power. Assuming there are 5 PCs in a party, this means arcane replenishment can be potentially used up to 4 times in a day per item. You just need to be extremely selective and procure items that are universally useful regardless of which class is using it.

Right now, you are all pulling at your hair and feeling like punching me in the face, aren't you?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Right now, you are all pulling at your hair and feeling like punching me in the face, aren't you?

Nah we just end to burn lawyery types at the stake round these parts

[/offtopic]what is a commoner railgun?[/offtopic]