Artificers and Psionics

[Grue]

The most logical solution I think is just to require the Artificer take the Wild Talent feat from the XPH which specifically allows a character to take psionic, metapsionic, and psionic item creation feats. I could never figure out why a normally nonpsionic character would bother taking a psionic item creation feat (as it would be rather hard to use) but it fits cleanly with a Artificer I think.

Under full transparency if I remember correctly UMD and UPD are interchangeable as well as spellcraft and psicraft. I wouldn't allow an artificer to take metapsionic feats or psionic item creation feats as bonus feats as an artificer however.

 

[DreamChaser]

Under full transparency if I remember correctly UMD and UPD are interchangeable as well as spellcraft and psicraft.

Do you have a reference for this?

wouldn't allow an artificer to take metapsionic feats or psionic item creation feats as bonus feats as an artificer however.

Why? I can understand the metapsionic, but why not psionic item creation feat?

DC

 

[Staffan]

Hmmm. This doesn't really make any sense to me. Either psionics are integrated into a system and are therefore essentially the same as magic (which is the base rule in the XPH) or they are not.

But even in the full transparency option, psionics and magic are not quite the same. Psions make power stones, tatoos, dorjes and universal items, while wizads make scrolls, potions, wands and wondrous items. If you allow artificers to make psionic items in addition to magic ones, you've effectively doubled their repertoire.

Also, in Eberron, psionics are considered more mysterious and exotic than magic, at least among the people of Khorvaire (the main users of psionics are from another continent). Allowing common artificers to make psionic items would remove much of that mystique. It's more appropriate in-setting to limit artificers to magic items, and maybe have the Kalashtar have their own psi-artificers.

 

[Grue]

Do you have a reference for this?



Why? I can understand the metapsionic, but why not psionic item creation feat?

DC

Hmm... I can't find a specific reference in either the SRD or XPH. I remember reading it somewhere but it probably was in another thread or a Q&A.

I think support for using Psicraft as Spellcraft (and the reverse) can be brought along if you allow Detect Psionics to determine school. As for UPD and UMD, considering in most campaigns magic items are going to be much more common than psionic devices, the utility of UPD would be severely diminished if a psionic character could only use UPD with psionic devices in a full transparency campaign.

Looking over the Artificer bonus feat feature again, they receive the Craft feats as automatic bonus feats at certain levels. Only Craft Construct and some other Item Creation feats found in the Eberron setting book are specifically put on the pick list as well as any metamagic feat. I don't really think expanding an Artificer's repetoire by another third is all that unbalancing (considering they have access to every arcane spell list as well as every divine spell) but I think using a pc's standard feat progression to acquire the additional list is a fair trade off. Considering that an artificer who does so is hampering their ability to build up some feat chains or acquire even more metamagic feats (a 6th level artificer with a quiver full of wands is a frightening thing... and it'll be worse at 9th when they can pick up wand mastery).

 

[DreamChaser]

But even in the full transparency option, psionics and magic are not quite the same. Psions make power stones, tatoos, dorjes and universal items, while wizads make scrolls, potions, wands and wondrous items. If you allow artificers to make psionic items in addition to magic ones, you've effectively doubled their repertoire.

I know about the different items and believe that they should be separate feats, but since artificers have to choose the feats, it is no more unbalancing as increasing the number of feats that a fighter can select as a bonus feat. Each one they take is replacing another feat that they are not taking.

Also, in Eberron, psionics are considered more mysterious and exotic than magic, at least among the people of Khorvaire (the main users of psionics are from another continent). Allowing common artificers to make psionic items would remove much of that mystique. It's more appropriate in-setting to limit artificers to magic items, and maybe have the Kalashtar have their own psi-artificers.

This I understand. Within the world, artificers are purely "magical" which at least according to the description in the "things to know" section in the ECS book refers to a long time mastery of ARCANE magic.

Now this brings up the question, can Artificers craft divine only items? If so, why do they gain that ability but not psionics? Arcane magic is well understood but that doesn't necessarily mean that divine magic is, as well.

DC

 

[Staffan]

Now this brings up the question, can Artificers craft divine only items? If so, why do they gain that ability but not psionics? Arcane magic is well understood but that doesn't necessarily mean that divine magic is, as well.

Nothing that says they can't. Artificers use magic, but magic comes in both divine and arcane flavors. Psionics is something related, but different. If you will, arcane magic is Coke and divine is Fanta, but psionics is a cake. All three are sweet, but only arcane and divine magic are fizzy drinks.

 

[Goobermunch]

Nothing that says they can't. Artificers use magic, but magic comes in both divine and arcane flavors. Psionics is something related, but different. If you will, arcane magic is Coke and divine is Fanta, but psionics is a cake. All three are sweet, but only arcane and divine magic are fizzy drinks.

Keith touched on something similar to this in his post in the Q&A thread. He mentioned that magic comes from the three dragons of Eberron itself, while psionics come from Xoriat and Dal Quor.

--G

 

[DreamChaser]

Nothing that says they can't. Artificers use magic, but magic comes in both divine and arcane flavors. Psionics is something related, but different. If you will, arcane magic is Coke and divine is Fanta, but psionics is a cake. All three are sweet, but only arcane and divine magic are fizzy drinks.

So artificers are the builders of things that use fizzy drinks? LOL

Keith touched on something similar to this in his post in the Q&A thread. He mentioned that magic comes from the three dragons of Eberron itself, while psionics come from Xoriat and Dal Quor.

If this is the case, why can't any magic-user heal? What is the difference, within the game world, between wizards and clerics?

DC

 

[UltimaGabe]

If this is the case, why can't any magic-user heal? What is the difference, within the game world, between wizards and clerics?

The main difference is that their magic comes from two different sources. One comes from the pure magic around them, the other comes from a deity. They go through completely different training, and focus their power in completely different ways. I don't know the in-game reason why Wizards can't cast Cure Light Wounds, but then again, I neither live in a D&D world, nor do I know anything about the physics of magic. (I refuse to even consider finding an explanation for the physics of a mystical, non-physical force that doesn't even exist.) However, it is very clear that Magic, despite its Arcane and Divine origins, is Magic. Psionics, although similar, is quite different. There are plenty of things that state this, and any book that suggests Magic-Psionics Transparency is being done specifically for an out-of-game reason- so it isn't freakin' hard for the DM and PCs to make sense out of their game and get along. It's no fun if you're a Psion in a world where nobody uses Psionics, and it's no fun to be DMing a PC whose Powers get past every monster's Spell Resistance because it's not a spell.

Anyway, as for Arcane healing spells, look at Bards.

 

[DreamChaser]

Ummm...thanks UltimaGabe for the metaphysics lessons but I was actually asking specifically within the context of Eberron.

If the world is based on a mastery of ARCANE magic (almost a direct quote from the "things to know" intro for the campaign setting book), why can artificers do divine items and effects when there is no reason within the back story of the game that they would have master of divine magic.

This is of course assuming that artificers can do divine items.

DC