Artificers, or any spellcaster, and scribe spells feat

[DM-Rocco]

From WotC errata for ECS (file dated 2/6/2006)




Also pay attention to text in the ECS on artificers. "They are not spellcasters." This helps lay the foundation for why they can do the things they do and why they are not arcane nor divine.


Steffan pretty much laid out the reasons why artificers can't scribe spells into wizard's spell books.


Multiclass spell casters still have to follow all the rules for each class (they are treated as separate).

So a bard/cleric cannot make an arcane cure light wounds spell unless he has "learned it". Although a bard who didn't know cure light wounds could still cast it from an arcane scroll of the same.


Scrolls are the only item with this specific type restriction.


Attached is the WotC errata

Thanks for posting that. It is different than mine, mine is only two pages long, so now I understand a bit more.

I'm not positive I agree.

The arcane/divine nature of the scroll is determined by the creator's class. The creator is, among other things, a bard; he can scribe arcane scrolls.

If a pure bard scribed a scroll (as the creator), with the Cure Light Wounds spell supplied by a cleric, the result would be an arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds (under the assumption that Cure Light Wounds is a prerequisite spell for the creation of the magic item, Scroll of Cure Light Wounds).

Is there a reason that a multiclass bard scribing a scroll (as the creator), with the Cure Light Wounds spell supplied by a cleric who happens to be him, could not create the same arcane scroll of Cure Light Wounds?

-Hyp.

See, this is where I get confused, cause if you were a wizard/artificer, couldn't you do the same thing?

From the SRD.

Note that adding spells to a wizard's spell book is under Arcane Magical Writings.



Basically in order to add a spell into the wizard's spellbook it has to be an arcane writing. Spell research is the exception.

There is essentially no difference between a sorcerer and a wizard's scrolls. Well there is one. The minimum casting level for a spell can't be bypassed (except for the artificer special ability). What this means is that a sorcerer casts a no lower than 6d6 fireball while a wizard casts a no lower than 5d6 one. Minimum caster level for a sorcer to cast a fireball is 6th level while a wizard is 5th (when they have access to 3rd level spells). So a sorcerer who makes a scroll of fireball has to have at least a Caster Level of 6 while a wizard has to have at least 5th. Does that make sense or am I just making it more confusing. 3.5 is very precise (compared to previous editions) on how things work, especially creating magic items.

Both a sorcerer and wizard create arcane scrolls.

Okay, wizards can't scribe non arcane spells. What about if you use decipher script skill to translate a artificer scroll? Why wouldn't that work?

And, if it did, why couldn't you just eliminate that step since you can read it from being the Artificer that created it?

True, but he could end up creating an item that requires a UMD check in order to use since the spell might not be on the correct list right?

For example a bard can't cast a divine scroll of cure light wounds, unless he uses UMD.



Like I said, it is not that far a stretch to use cooperative magic that way even though the RAW implies that it is for multiple characters.

Now an artificer doesn't quite work that way though.

pg 32 ECS

"An artificer's infusions do not meet the spell prerequisites for creating magic items."

Now it does continue to say

"For example, an artificer must still employ the UMD skill to emulate the light spell to create a wand of light, even though light appears on his infusion list."

I understand what they are saying, even if you have the same spell on the infusion list, it doesn't count towards the prerequisities. In otherwords, you must use UMD for all prerequisites listed to create a given item. Although, it doesn't list what happens if you have them on another spell list.

Because at some point in the discussion before we got into specifics lijke using items to supply spells the question was made about a multiclassed character supplying the spells from one side and the other to get a new spell for his wizard's spell book. And it went to an artificer/wizard.

I am mainly interested in the way scrolls, and magic items in general, work when an Artificer//Wizard gestalt character creates an items. Most importantly, scrolls. Why, cause I am about to play one and I don't get it.

As a side note, it is interesting to see how how things have progressed to include other spell class combos so I know if I run into those situations.

 

[irdeggman]

Thanks for posting that. It is different than mine, mine is only two pages long, so now I understand a bit more.

No problem, that is what I figured was the crux of the issue.

Okay, wizards can't scribe non arcane spells. What about if you use decipher script skill to translate a artificer scroll? Why wouldn't that work?

And, if it did, why couldn't you just eliminate that step since you can read it from being the Artificer that created it?

You have to put together pieces from several different places to get there.

First off, unless you somehow use the cooperative magic item creation rules for a single character (instead of multiple ones) - any item (including scrolls) made by an artificer are neither divine nor arcane. This is the important part to start with.

ARCANE MAGICAL WRITINGS
To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in her own way. Another person’s magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until she takes time to study and decipher it.

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another’s spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers a magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.


Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.

This is the important part. It specificaly states that the wizard must decipher the arcane writing not the scroll or the source.

DIVINE MAGICAL WRITINGS
Divine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Any character with the Spellcraft skill can attempt to decipher the divine magical writing and identify it. However, only characters who have the spell in question (in its divine form) on their class spell list can cast a divine spell from a scroll.

Here is where it covers the fact that there is a difference between arcane and divine writings.

I am mainly interested in the way scrolls, and magic items in general, work when an Artificer//Wizard gestalt character creates an items. Most importantly, scrolls. Why, cause I am about to play one and I don't get it.

You treat each class as separate classes as far as spell lists and characteristics go.

Feats apply all the time, regardless of the class.

Again, in order to get combinations of artificer/wizard items you need 2 seperate characters (unless trying to apply the cooperative magic rules to a single character). You would need to use an item to supply the spell otherwise. Scrolls are the only item that have arcane/divine types on them.