D&D 5E As a DM, do I kill the entire party at the end? Im torn?

[AverageCitizen]

Do they have a caster who can cast imprisonment? Because this is what it is for.

 

[Umbran]

Before dealing with your specific question, there's a lesson to learn from this: you shouldn't ever assume your players will pick up on one vital clue, no matter how big and obvious you make it!

Ideally, for every conclusion you want your players to draw you should have at least three clues - that way they can miss one, misinterpret the second, and finally "get it" with the third!

It then follows that maybe you should try to work in an extra chance for them to get the clue, especially if they missed it not because of any meaningful choice they made, but out of simple dumb luck.

 

[baradtgnome]

Sounds like from your later post you have it sorted out, but since I already figured out what I wanted to say....

... The party playing my adventure missed a whale sized clue, which means that when they face the 'big bad' at the end, if I play it by the campaign story, they cant win - they all die in the end.

Easy for us to feel as a DM we have made things OBVIOUS. 40+ years of DMing has taught me to humbly understand I am no judge of obvious. I recommend the excellent article on the Alexandrian - Three Clue Rule.

So, do I kill them all, or somehow change the rules of my campaign so that they can kill the bad, even though the horcrux (heart) beats on in a box somewhere?

How would you feel as a player if after 12+ weeks of campaign, you ALL lost against the big bad? In a way, I feel they deserve to all die for being so stupid, but at the same time, I dont want to upet the (RL) group.

• How would I feel as player? Bad. Stupid. That was not fun.
• Should you hold players accountable for their actions? Yes
• Is the only accountability death? No (there are a number of excellent suggestions in the thread). Players hate losing their stuff and/or getting captured - sometimes worse than dying. Humiliation by the BBEG is also great, and makes the party even more determine to get revenge. Works wonders!
• Change the 'rules' of your campaign? Um, you are the DM, god of your world. The rules are there to serve your pleasure. And your pleasure should be to have a fun, challenging and satisfying campaign. And one where you players want to return to you as a DM. So go ahead and make changes. Don't give them anything on a silver platter, but make them pay and give them additional opportunity(ies)

Best of Luck

 

[Hjorimir]

Choices without consequences are meaningless. Personally, I'd roll out the encounter and see what happens. I'd make an effort to point out that attacks don't seem to have any effect and see if the PCs don't start running. If not, I'd mow them down. Personally, if I was a player here and you gave me an easy out, I'd be disappointed. Killing a character is one thing (and it sucks), but killing the spirit of adventure is a far worse blow in my mind. The second I determine that the DM is afraid to kill my character I'd lose interest.

 

[Bawylie]

Good question. And a dilemma that many DMs wrestle with.

If I were in your position, and the PCs were in a confrontation with the villain, I'd probably kill them off.

Of course, I've already dropped the hints that the BBEG is nigh immortal/invincible and I've dropped a lead on the heart seeker quest right at their feet.

If they've ignored that, and still proceed to the confrontation - I'm obligated to play the scenario out honestly. I'm obligated to honor the players' actions with the consequences. They cannot win; they probably die.

Now that's me. I strongly believe that you shouldn't point your DM gun at anything you're unwilling to kill. And I strongly believe that honoring the players' decisions requires that the consequences follow the actions (unmitigated by me). As one of my players you earn your victories and your defeats.

So that brings me to the players missing their heart seeker lead. You dropped a big clue and they didn't pick it up. That's on them. The 3 Clue Rule (a suggestion that you triple your work w/o any better chance that any of those clues are found) is generally bad advice. I find that what works best is that you give the clues (or evidence or leads) and leave it to the players to follow up and determine what those clues or evidence mean and where those leads go.

In an investigation or a mystery game, the point is to solve the mystery. Just as the point of a quest is to complete it. So I don't withhold the clues & hope they'll be found - I give them! Just like your questgivers don't play coy with what they want the adventurers to do ("Save my town!" they beg, not "Figure out what we want you to do based on these 9 weird happenings").

But after that, it's on your players to investigate those clues, determine what the evidence proves, or actually go on that quest. If they don't go, or if they fail, I don't feel it's right to take the consequences of those actions/inactions away from them.

You didn't find the horcrux, you didn't destroy the horcrux, you can't beat voldemort. Hope you have a Plan B.


-Brad

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[EdL]

Just a quick note. This is one of the things that I've never liked about D&D. The obvious solution is to chop the Big Bad up into small pieces, box the pieces up in concrete (or whatever) and toss the pieces into the deepest parts of the ocean. Problem solved. (At least as far as they're concerned.) But you can't do that in D&D. Bummer.

Personally, I'd just kill them. But I like the OP's idea of having the Innkeeper show up with the heart and stabbing it just before dieing. Shows them both to pay more attention, and that actions have consequences.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

But you can't do that in D&D. Bummer.

...why can't you? I can do that in D&D. I have done that in D&D... well, close to it. It was technically just dismembering the guy and leaving his pieces on different planes of existence.

 

[robus]

I think the option of the PCs being cast hopeless into the BBEGs deepest dungeon would be a fine result of their premature battle. It aligns nicely with the heroes journey where there's a point where the hero has to confront their failure and mortality. That could be the place where they encounter someone who could explain why they failed to badly and hand deliver the clue that the heart is hidden somewhere. Then the quest becomes to deal with the heart (it could be in the fortress for a speedy turnaround) and then it's back to attack the BBEG.

Sounds nice and dramatic to me

 

[pdegan2814]

If this campaign setting is going to continue well beyond this adventure, you could go long-term with it. Let the party think they've killed the BBEG. Send them on another adventure, perhaps more than one, leaving clues to a "new" BBEG working behind the scenes. At some point reveal that the new BBEG is actually the old BBEG finally restored to full power(like Sauron, perhaps he retreated after his initial major defeat, gathering his strength until he was powerful enough to surface again), giving the party another chance to learn how to put him down for good. The trick I think will be giving the BBEG either some new powers or new tactics, so that the 2nd Boss Battle with him doesn't feel like just a replay of the first one.