D&D 5E As a DM, do I kill the entire party at the end? Im torn?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Just a quick note. This is one of the things that I've never liked about D&D. The obvious solution is to chop the Big Bad up into small pieces, box the pieces up in concrete (or whatever) and toss the pieces into the deepest parts of the ocean. Problem solved. (At least as far as they're concerned.) But you can't do that in D&D. Bummer.

Eh? Why not?

There's even a 9th level spell (Imprisonment) designed specifically for the case of a BBEG who just won't die. Not that you have to use the spell specifically--you can work something out at lower levels.

Amusing idea: a 20th level wizard with Int 7 and Cha 20 and Resilient Con and Lucky has a Magic Jar DC of 12 and +11 to Cha saves. He literally cannot fail to survive his own death until you destroy the Magic Jar. He does have a bit of a problem possessing anyone but a mook in the first place though... will need to be patient.

Normal wizards just rely on the Clone spell though, or turn themselves into liches.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I have played the campaign (home brew) 4 other times before and in each time, the PCs have spotted the clue have got what is needed and have won. But this group missed it (even when I slapped 2 of them in the face with the clue again to try and get them back on track), and have headed off to do the battle with the big bad.

I'd find this rather enjoyable as a player to realize what a dumb mistake we made after getting TPKed. Seriously, I don't mind a dead character at the end of a fun campaign, and consider it training for how to not die next time.

How would you feel as a player if after 12+ weeks of campaign, you ALL lost against the big bad?

12+ weeks? That's just a game of Monopoly. Kill them off, and if they are reasonably mature and this isn't their first game every, they ought to at least tolerate it, if not enjoy it.

After the TPK, you might want to have a denouement where you narrate their souls' arrivals at their respective afterlives. Throw some humor or irony into it, and hopefully that will take the sting off of it.

If they still seem bitter, kick them out of your group for not having a sense of humor. Just kidding. Run a brief adventure where they totally trash their opponents. You might actually have their characters all get resurrected years later to have that adventure. Maybe some other party of heroes ended up defeating the BBEG that killed them, and they became a tragic tale (or laughing stock). Then when those other heroes turn into tyrants or get eaten by grues, some bumbling comic-relief NPC has them all raised from the dead to call in the "B-Team" to try to save the day (which they probably end up doing).

There are so many more fun ways of giving players interesting experiences without saving characters from the natural consequences of their actions.

 

[S'mon]

If it were me I'd give the defeated PCs a chance to retreat and escape. Survivors could then link up with new PCs replacing the dead ones for a rematch.

 

[pdzoch]

It appears that the players have written their own story -- they have gone off script. I do not think the answer to the game, or your story, is to kill them. However, there should be a setback as they missed, or disregarded, important information. So the trick here is how do you get them back onto the story line and is it necessary? Unless their current course of action could lead to disastrous results, you have time to get the story and game to a satisfying conclusion.

Maybe, another chapter has to be written to get to the BBEG because they missed the previous clues. Perhaps, additional clues could be uncovered. The players could uncover the clues while they are on the wrong track, or someone (their patron lord, new NPC, etc.) could reveal that a new clue has been uncovered leading a different direction. Perhaps loosing "the battle to win the war" is required for them to realize he can not be killed and some savior either whisks them from the losing cause or recovers them from the battlefield to regroup and think about why the BBEG is still so powerful.

The script for the game is just a start; you will have to make adjustments all the time -- the players will never know you are making the changes on the fly to suite their game and the story. In the end, you want them to have fun. Drama is all part of it, and perhaps a near death experience will be exciting for everyone. But I would avoid a TPK when it might not be all the players' fault.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I was going to suggest this as well. It seems the best bet, the heroes can defeat the bad guy but he may not stay dead for long. The heroes may even come up with some other way to permanently get rid of him like trapping him in a collapsed cavern or in a pocket dimension or something to that effect.

Hooray for Bags of Devouring!

 

[Shiroiken]

If you don't kill them, you do a disservice to yourself, your creation, and to the players. The good guys don't always win, especially when they're stupid. You gave them the chance, and they should suffer the consequences for their decisions. Coddling them is insulting, and will prevent them from learning from their mistake.

That said, there is another option (assuming the players FINALLY get the hint). When they go to do battle, have their semi-immortality be obvious, with wounds closing as the open, and limbs reattaching as needed. Have the bad guys arrogantly laugh at the foolishness of these "mortals," and toy with them. Make sure they have an out to run for it, and then have the bad guys mock them instead of chasing (as they assume the PCs are no longer threats). This may result in the death of a couple of PCs (those left behind), but they deserve it.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If it bleeds we can kill it.
If it doesn't bleed, try burning it.
If it doesn't burn, try dissolving it in acid.
If it doesn't dissolve in acid, turn it to stone.
If it won't turn to stone, paralyse it and seal it in a tomb.
If it escapes from the tomb, planeshift it.
If it can planeshift, feeblemind it.
If it cannot be feebleminded, imprison it.
If none of that works, just ask the DM what he wants you to do.

 

[DeanP]

I think you go with the flow. They might be able to legitimately retreat from the battle if they realize it's not going in their favor. They might also choose to plug along, even if it becomes dire. There's a balance here, they'll still have player agency if they comprehend that they've taken on something they're not ready for or if they blindly plunge ahead. It still provides them with some choice. As a player, we've had to retreat in some situations. As a DM, I've had players retreat as well. There were repercussions and further obstacles, but they eventually prevailed because they were wise and humble enough to understand they didn't have a sound plan going into the battle and needed to set up a situation more advantageous to them.

 

[Unwise]

OP I would say that you should not have any preconceived idea about whether they live or die, don't play towards either goal. Just have the guy be immortal, they might realise that early and run away, that is fine. Heroes getting their butts kicked, losing a few of their members in the fight maybe, then regrouping and finding the macguffin to defeat the BBEG is a perfect story. So basically they have another 'out' here. They can realise and run away, don't close that off to them unless you have to.

 

[Blue]

You need to respect player actions. They missed the clue - you need to respect that. You chose that ti was unwinnable and un-retreatable - you don't need to respect that.

Let them fight. Let them realize that they can't kill him. Put in place secondary objectives that they can accomplish when getting brutalized, perhaps ones that will turn the war around or at least give respite. Give them an opportunity to retreat when they feel like they have accomplished enough, but don't make it easy. Let some die if they aren't smart and lucky, let the dice fall where they will. Encourage someone to be a martyr to let the rest of the party escape. "You shall not pass!" makes a great gaming story. And give them another 12 week of trying to dig out of this bad position, war lost, on the run trying to stop the big bad from steamrolling the forces of good, raising guerilla forces to take the land back.

(And if someone is willing to play the martyr card to save the rest, let them bring in a new character with a major plot bennie. Gotta reward that if you want to see it again.)

Fail forward, it could be an even more interesting second half.