D&D 5E As a DM - Your Top 3 Most Hated Spells

There's no such thing as a "move action" in 5E. Same issue applies with your Counterspell change. I see what you're getting at but the way movement works in 5E this potentially has ramifications beyond what you may be considering. It also leaves True Strike as still pretty bad.

You say that like it can't possibly work that way. The Aim action for Rogues from the Class Feature Variants UA already works that way:

Cunning Action: Aim
2nd-level rogue feature (enhances Cunning Action)

You gain an additional way to use your Cunning Action: carefully aiming your next attack. As a bonus action, you give yourself advantage on your next attack roll on the current turn. You can use this bonus action only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.

And the grappled condition already uses similar language to prohibit movement.

Counterspell could easily say:

Counterspell said:
You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of Casting a Spell. If the creature is Casting a Spell of 3rd Level or lower, its spell fails and has no effect and you are incapacitated until the end of your next turn. If it is Casting a Spell of 4th Level or higher, make an ability check using your Spellcasting Ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a success, the creature's spell fails and has no effect and you are incapacitated until the end of your next turn. On a failure, your move speed is reduced to 0 and you can't benefit from any bonus to speed until the end of your next turn.

Sure, it's super fiddley and I wouldn't play with the spell this way, but mechanically it works just fine. 5e is certainly capable of it. No, we don't really need to care about misty step or other oddball corner cases. This is D&D, not Magic: The Gathering.

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with counterspell. I would prefer that it didn't have the "At Higher Levels" clause at all, but that's really pretty minor. If I really have an issue with it interfering with my encounter as a DM, I would probably just add an additional spellcaster who has counterspell, but that's somewhat of a luxury of milestone leveling.

True strike I think is fairly useless, but it is useful in an ambush or when combined with a much higher level spell that requires a spell attack roll. In both of those cases, you can't really just attack two turns in a row. However, it's somewhat rare that you actually care that much, so its just not that useful. I think true strike would also be more appropriate if it cost a bonus action and then prevented you from casting spells and gave you disadvantage on attack rolls the next turn. However, I think that's too fiddley for 5e.

Blade ward has the same problem that true strike does. It's only useful when Dodge doesn't work because your attackers already have disadvantage. That just doesn't come up often enough.

Spare the dying I think is shockingly awful. When a Healer's Kit costs 5 gp for 10 de facto potions of spare the dying, and you can make a Medicine (Wisdom) check to do it instead, too, it's just inexcusably bad. Both of those take a standard action, and spare the dying is range touch. I think either the cantrip should either have a range (15 to 30 feet), should only require a bonus action, or should have some other benefit (e.g., automatically succeeds on death saves over a specified time period).
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
You say that like it can't possibly work that way. The Aim action for Rogues from the Class Feature Variants UA already works that way.

"....You can use this bonus action only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn."
Well, y'know, 5e is s'posed to be simple & rules-lite, so guess that must've seemed much simpler than "move action" or - horrors - the 3.x "move-equivalent action."

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And the grappled condition already uses similar language to prohibit movement.
It reduces your speed to 0, and prohibits benefiting from bonuses to speed. Sounds completely different to me.
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I'm just alluding to Monte Cook's "Ivory Tower Game Design"
In which Monte Cook demonstrates epic-tier misunderstanding of Magic design.

It seems a similar purpose. Spells known could be likened to a deck. You include a spell(card - heck, there are even spell cards) that seems cool, it fails you, you swap it out for something better going forward.
I get the analogy, but it isn’t as strong of one as it looks on the surface due to the randomized nature of Magic card acquisition.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
In which Monte Cook demonstrates epic-tier misconception of Magic design.
I'll defer to both of you on that, having only second-hand familiarity.

I get the analogy, but it isn’t as strong of one as it looks on the surface due to the randomized nature of Magic card acquisition.
OK. Ironically, that's rather like an old-school magic-user's spell acquisition (randomized by Know Spell % and the scrolls/spellbooks placed by the DM). 5e even retains a bit of that.
Even if you do get some randomization of spells available to prepare, though, you still make the decision which to prepare.

I guess drawing cards is also random, though. But don't see how that makes a huge difference.

The role of skill testing cards is much more critical to limited than constructed.
Sorry, I don't follow?
 




Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
OK. Ironically, that's rather like an old-school magic-user's spell acquisition (randomized by Know Spell % and the scrolls/spellbooks placed by the DM). 5e even retains a bit of that.
Even if you do get some randomization of spells available to prepare, though, you still make the decision which to prepare.
True! I think in that situation, there would be a more MTG-like use for trap spells.

I guess drawing cards is also random, though. But don't see how that makes a huge difference.
Nah, I don’t think that makes a big difference either.

Sorry, I don't follow?
Constructed is what most people think of when they think of Magic, where you build a deck out of cards from your whole collection (or the subset thereof that are legal in whatever format you’re building it for.) Limited is where you receive a limited pool of cards, usually by opening a certain number of packs and drafting picks from them with a group of other players (referred to as “draft”), or by opening a sealed product that contains a larger random assortment of cards (referred to as “sealed”), and have to build a deck out of that limited pool. Skill testing cards certainly play some role in Constructed, but generally speaking, the skill required to recognize and avoid skill testing cards when building a constructed deck is low enough as to be negligible. In limited though, the smaller pool of cards to build decks from significantly lowers the average power level and consistency of decks in the event, and accordingly increases the impact of players’ skill at evaluating individual cards. Especially in draft, because you have to be able to evaluate what cards to pick without knowing the full pool of cards you’ll have to work with. Limited (and especially draft) also makes card rarity a much more significant balancing factor, bringing the game much closer in line with the way Richard Garfield initially imagined it being played, as he significantly underestimated how much product the typical player would purchase, and probably never imagined the role the secondary market ended up playing in constructed.

Oh, there's no need to 'prove' the obvious, it just points out that, at least in 3e, they were intentional.
Well, what he points out is that some spells are intentionally more powerful than others. I think that interpreting that as meaning that trap spells are intentional is a misunderstanding (though to be fair, his comparison to skill testing cards, coupled with his misrepresentation of their purpose does make this an easy mistake to make.)

To be clear, skill testing cards in Magic are not intended to trick players. They don’t design cards to look impressive but actually be bad. What they do is intentionally design cards that are obviously bad to players who have a basic understanding of the game’s power curve. For a basic example, the game expects you to be able to get a 2/1 creature for one white mana. A 2/1 creature for one white mana and one additional mana of any color might seem fine in a vacuum, but is obviously behind the curve to any player who has learned this fairly fundamental aspect of the game. The idea isn’t to trick anyone, but to teach players about the power curve. Learning to recognize these skill testing cards is an expected part of the progression of learning the nuances of deck building.

Separate from this is the player psychographic profiles, which are really more of a marketing tool. At a certain point, the developers of Magic realized that different players play the game for different reasons, and it would be a good idea to design cards specifically to appeal to these different types of players. So, the player psychographic profiles were developed. The three fundamental profiles WotC designs for are referred to as “Timmy,” “Johnny,” and “Spike.”

Timmy plays for the pure experience. He generally cares more about making cool things happen in the game than about winning. He likes winning of course, but he wants to win on his terms. If Timmy plays a two out of three match and loses two games, but wins one in a splashy way, he still walks away happy. Cards designed to appeal to Timmy tend to be impressive in some way, either creatures with really high power and toughness, or spells that do lots of damage, or otherwise do really big things. This is probably why Cook got them mixed up with skill testing cards. It’s not that Timmy cards intentionally look cool but aren’t good, it’s that Timmy cards are designed to be flashy above all else, and their competitive viability isn’t as much of a concern (though plenty of Timmy cards are still competitively viable).

Johnny plays to express himself. Johnny likes building decks that stand out in some way, maybe because theyre built around a specific theme, or a combination of cards with a synergy he really likes, or maybe he always finds a spot for his favorite creature in every deck he builds. For Johnny, playing the game isn’t about winning and losing, it’s about showing off his deck. If he plays a two out of three match and loses two games before winning one, he still walks away happy that he got to put his cool deck on display. Cards designed to appeal to Johnny often have really off-the-wall effects, or built-in synergies with other cards, or play a significant role in the game’s meta-plot. As with Timmy cards, Johnny cards may or may not be competitively viable, that’s just not really the main focus of the design.

Spike plays for the competition. She likes building the best decks she can, and winning with them. If Spike plays a 2 out of 3 match, and doesn’t win 2 games, she probably doesn’t walk away happy. If she wins two and loses one, she probably walks away happy, but she’s also probably thinking about how she could have done better in the game she lost. Cards designed to appeal to Spike are often ahead of the curve, doing just a bit more for their cost than is typically expected. Of all the psychographic profiles, Spike is most likely to like cards with built-in drawbacks, as long as the overall power level is worth the trade off.
 

Well, y'know, 5e is s'posed to be simple & rules-lite, so guess that must've seemed much simpler than "move action" or - horrors - the 3.x "move-equivalent action."

;|

It reduces your speed to 0, and prohibits benefiting from bonuses to speed. Sounds completely different to me.
Actually i find 3/3.5's action cycle FAR more intuitive. Yes there are more KINDS of actions but the way they work (imo) is actually less of a clusterf&#$
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Actually i find 3/3.5's action cycle FAR more intuitive. Yes there are more KINDS of actions but the way they work (imo) is actually less of a clusterf&#$
I disagree. The way movement, actions, and bonus actions work in 5e is quite simple. The only potentially confusing part IMO is the wording on bonus actions, but the way they actually work is perfectly understandable and simple.
 

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