D&D 5E Asking for suggestions

[FormerlyHemlock]

I am noticing more and more when playing 5th edition thatthe combat is nice that it is simplified but at the same time thissimplification is causing issues with party wipes and killing of the weakerplayer classes. Let me explain.
Most of the encounters have the party outnumbered. So thecharacter with the higher armor classes ( Fighter / Barbarians ) move forwardto try to slow the advance and try to setup a defensive front to help protectthe weaker lower armor / lower HP classes. Depending on initiative I am find weare usually surround either before we act or by the end of round 1. This doesleave any room to retreat or even setup away to help weaker players survive.
Now here is where the issue is. There is no way for thefighter to be able to stop that group from a) running right around him give allcreatures advantage ( which is huge in this version) on all attacks or worstrun right the weaker players and take them down even quicker. Yes I know theyhave 1 Opportunity attack per round but that doesn’t help when you areoutnumbered and 5 or 6 are going past you.
What I am finding that the DM we have is very lucky and withadvantage is hitting even the high armor classes (18 and 19) 60% to 75% of thetime. So the fighters by round two are at below half in their HP.
Let not talk about the lower HP characters.
I am just wondering if other are experiencing this and whatoption that we could look at to make this game fun again. It is no fun when byround 2 that 1 or 2 characters are down and the rest are [losing badly].

Others have already addressed the flanking rule, and Tony mentioned tactics, so I'll spend a little bit of time talking about player tactics.

The PCs need to step up their game. If there are four PCs and 5-6 enemies, the fighter can grapple one enemy (taking it out of play) and opportunity-attack another as it runs past him; the barbarian can do the same. That accounts for three or four enemies, leaving 1-3 to attack the back line wizard and cleric. The cleric can use his high AC and Dodge to keep himself safe while he keeps another of those enemies busy using his opportunity attack, and use his bonus action to cast Shield of Faith or Sanctuary on whoever is facing the most enemies. The wizard can use Expeditious Retreat to keep himself out of the enemy's threat zone, and throw a Fire Bolt at another enemy (or just shoot it with a crossbow if he has good Dex). Or he can likewise just Dodge to buy time for the fighter and barbarian to whittle down the enemies; or he can toss a Sleep spell to cut down on enemy numbers.

Details will vary. If you are higher-level, the wizard can throw Web spells, fighters can grapple more enemies at a time or cleave with Great Weapon Master, etc.

But really the single most important thing you can do happens before combat, which is: decide what you're going to do if combat occurs, and figure out any preparations you can make now that will make it easier. Do you want to create chokepoints using caltrops? Do it now, when the action cost doesn't matter. Do you want to spike some doors shut to reduce the odds of a monster slipping behind you? Do that now too. Do you want to fill certain tunnels entirely with dirt using Mold Earth? Do that now. Do you want to spread out a bit and send the fighter and barbarian on ahead 100' or so so that the wizard doesn't have to cast Expeditious Retreat to stay out of enemy threat zones? Don't wait.

If you have a rogue who can scout ahead, or a wizard's familiar, that can be invaluable in detecting enemies before they get into ambush range. It may be useful to cast Longstrider on the rogue before sending him ahead. 30' move + Disengage isn't enough to prevent you from taking damage from enemies that move 30' too, so the rogue has to spend his action on Dashing too--but 40' move + Disengage is enough, so the Rogue can use his action to attack or Hide. The rogue may even be able to kill off certain groups of enemies before the rest of the party gets there, thus saving the party resources.

Some DMs are jerks and like to make all monsters appear suddenly in close-range ambushes, all day every day, no matter what kind of scouting you try to do ahead of time. Don't play with those DMs unless you enjoy that kind of game.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Flanking is an optional rule, and like many of the DMG optional rules, little to no consideration was actually given to it in terms of balance or the effect on the game.

As you are finding out, the rule is thoroughly broken, partially because of the structure of opportunity attacks in this edition. Combatants are free to run in circles around their foe, basically meaning that as soon as you are outnumbered, your opponent will flank you.

Since the PCs are almost always outnumbered by foes in general, and more specifically the PCs will almost always have less melee combatants than their foes, this leads to the monsters having perma-advantage.

Further to that, I bet your DM is cheating by moving all the monsters at the same time, making them all get advantage.

Note - your DM is probably not doing all of this deliberately. He's most likely just used to earlier editions of the game where flanking was not quite such a big deal, and the rules presented inevitably lead to this situation.

Finally, I would suggest that if you're never getting surprise rounds against large armed groups that include giants, and combat is always starting at point blank range, your DM is doing something wrong. Part of the advantage of the PCs should be that they are a smaller, better trained group, and occasionally should get the drop on foes. If your DM is ignoring the surprise rules and starting every encounter in melee, he's artificially boosting melee foes significantly.


Start by pointing out to him that flanking is
a) an optional rule
b) overwhelmingly good for the monsters

I would also suggest you head out to a wooded area and get some hands on experience on how easy it is to spot and hear someone 120' away. When they are normal sized. And not decked out in gleaming, noisy armor and waving weapons about.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I would also suggest you head out to a wooded area and get some hands on experience on how easy it is to spot and hear someone 120' away. When they are normal sized. And not decked out in gleaming, noisy armor and waving weapons about.

And make sure you measure 120'. Hint: it's closer than most DMs think it is, at least judging by forum stories. Battlegrid usage seems to give many people a distorted idea of distance, relative to the real world.

 

[LordEntrails]

And make sure you measure 120'. Hint: it's closer than most DMs think it is, at least judging by forum stories. Battlegrid usage seems to give many people a distorted idea of distance, relative to the real world.

imo, that's because most battle grids/maps are absurdly small. Which is a result of the size of mini's, 25mm/1" on a table size map means only 25-40 grids in anyone direction. Then throw in people's tendencies to put the mini's other than on the edge (especially as the DM wants to spread their guys around, and many battle map combats start at a range of only 50-100 feet.

My players love it when they get a battle map that starts a combat 500 feet away from the enemy. But we can only do that on a VTT, or the theatre of the mind.

 

[Horwath]

Solution would be 4th edition way of AoO.

Every character gets one attack of opportunity per TURN. AoO does not use reaction.

That way the fighter wont stop anyone passing by him(except via sentinel feat), but will give each a whack on the head.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Not only is it not interesting because it is very easy to achieve, but it also makes everything else that grants advantage redundant. Barbarians for example are pretty bad.

It's a bad rule, no doubt, but barbarians don't actually get the worst of it. Since everyone has advantage against them anyway, they can be reckless without paying any cost for it, and their damage resistance is pretty much designed around the assumption that they'll always be hit anyway.

 

[Gadget]

It sounds like you want to play Beowulf, but ended up in Black Company. This is a DM/player mis-match of expectations. Try and talk it out. If he is going to use the optional flanking rules, he needs to allow for your party to be more strategic with scouting, surprise and starting combats at longer range. Not all of these methods should work all the time, but at least give you the opportunity every now and again, sheesh.