[sblock=OOC] Generally speaking, if the words you're speaking don't fully match your intention, you use Deception, otherwise it's Persuasion.The intention itself doesn't matter, only whether it matches your words.
So, for example, a pacifist saying, "Stand down or I hurt you." - Deception. A king saying "Confess and I'll let you join the Night's Watch" but then offing your head - Deception. A lord saying, "Surrender and I'll try to help you" - Persuasion, unless he actually has no such intention. Vague, yes, but I'm not sure if I can make an easier line to distinguish them.
In both your cases, unless you're deliberately lying, your attempts sound more like Persuasion - Intimidate and Persuasion - Convince, possibly Bargain.
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So, for example, a pacifist saying, "Stand down or I hurt you." - Deception. A king saying "Confess and I'll let you join the Night's Watch" but then offing your head - Deception. A lord saying, "Surrender and I'll try to help you" - Persuasion, unless he actually has no such intention. Vague, yes, but I'm not sure if I can make an easier line to distinguish them.
In both your cases, unless you're deliberately lying, your attempts sound more like Persuasion - Intimidate and Persuasion - Convince, possibly Bargain.
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