D&D 5E Assassinate and Greater Invisibility

[DM-Rocco]

Another way to look at this is to compare to other 3rd level subclass abilities. One that made it possible to consistently get automatic crits throughout a fight would be waaaaaay more powerful than any other 3rd level ability.

True, but you have to do some work to set it up and the assassin other higher level features are pretty much ass soooooooo

 

[DM-Rocco]

This is the sort of thing that bugs me. The assassin should absolutely be able to take out 6 people in a row, by darting in and out of sight like a homicidal Batman.

I’d allow assassinate against any target from whom you are hidden.

That's what I am getting at. if you are literally blind to an attack coming, even if you are expecting it, you can't defend against it.

 

[Olrox17]

That's what I am getting at. if you are literally blind to an attack coming, even if you are expecting it, you can't defend against it.

By that logic, every attack from an hidden creature should be a automatic critical, assassin subclass or not.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

That's what I am getting at. if you are literally blind to an attack coming, even if you are expecting it, you can't defend against it.

If your were (as a solo assassin) trying to attack/assassinate a group of, lets say, 3 creatures, I'd let you kill more than one as long as:
You beat the first one on Ini and Stealth,
kill it in one shot,
then hide again

rince an repeat for the other 2, as long as the above criteria are met, rolling for a new initiative/stealth each time you dart of shadow to stab a target.

Once combat as started with all the other players, I would not let you assassinate a target, unless you baited it somewhat away from the main fight (say 100 ft).

 

[DM-Rocco]

By that logic, every attack from an hidden creature should be a automatic critical, assassin subclass or not.

Not really, that feature is a class ability. If you went down that road, then why take assassin to begin with?

 

[Olrox17]

Not really, that feature is a class ability. If you went down that road, then why take assassin to begin with?

Indeed. Following what seems logical to me leads to the subclass being useless. On the other hand, following what seems logical to you leads to the subclass being overpowered.

The assassin subclass is not balanced over what may seem more logical to me or you. I suggest playing it according to RAW.

 

[DM-Rocco]

So on the surface I agree with many of you on what the rules say, even if I don't agree with them in this scenario. I will contend that if you are literally undetectable that you should be able to assassinate.

What are your thoughts on being hidden, forgoing a round of attack action, and then hitting an enemy with assassinate?

or

All enemies can make an active perception check to pinpoint where you are and if they fail you get to assassinate that round.

Yes, you don't have to post the poorly worded rules from the PHB regarding surprise and the first round of combat. This would be some sort of house rule.

 

[Olrox17]

So on the surface I agree with many of you on what the rules say, even if I don't agree with them in this scenario. I will contend that if you are literally undetectable that you should be able to assassinate.

What are your thoughts on being hidden, forgoing a round of attack action, and then hitting an enemy with assassinate?

or

All enemies can make an active perception check to pinpoint where you are and if they fail you get to assassinate that round.

Yes, you don't have to post the poorly worded rules from the PHB regarding surprise and the first round of combat. This would be some sort of house rule.

Forgoing an entire combat round to "prepare" an assassinate attempt would probably be a relatively balanced house rule. Most fourth edition lurker monsters do exactly that, and they're not overpowered or anything.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

By that logic, every attack from an hidden creature should be a automatic critical, assassin subclass or not.

Well, no. Advantage is how you model that normally. The Assassin has specialized training in this context.

 

[Stoutstien]

The real issue here is the assassinate feature. Both parts of it are hard to use effectively. Surprise is super DM dependant.

I prefer changing it to:
Starting at lv 3 you are your deadliest....you can choose to maximize half of your sneak attack dice rounded up during the first round of combat.
It scales with rogue levels, works with critical hits, is not dependent on surprise, and prevents the allure of jumping out of the class once you get to lv 3.