Assassins as a Heroic Archetype?

[Dire Bare]

Yes, many parties are morally ambiguous, but an assassin is a lot more so. But the main question is what kind of assassin. If they kill for their own monetary gain then they are not heroic. If they kill for a cause they can be. If they kill to make the world a better place, then they probably are.

But for many people heroic is facing enemies in the proper way, and not using any means necessary, and that is the rub for me. I want my players to be heroic, I like to run heroic games. And a lone assassin who sneaks in and out of places just is not.

Also D&D is ever a party game, and assassins are not party people. Yes, they can play as part of a party, but then they are not being true assassins. They could be any of a number of other classes just as well.

I have not seen the new assassin in 4E (see my sig) and probably would not object to someone playing one (assuming I thought he was balanced) if I had the rules for him, but they would need to fit in the party.

So a lone killer would not make the grade.

You're making a lot of assumptions on how assassins "must" be played. Sure, the NPC assassin guild is filled with amoral loners who enjoy their work a little too much . . . but that doesn't mean your PC has to fit that mold.

It doesn't take much thought, IMO, to create as assassin who can be a hero (if a dark one) and a team player. Perhaps a religious guild of assassins dedicated to a good or unaligned deity that target those who do great evil and oppress the weak. Perhaps your assassin IS quite mercenary, but when it comes to his friends he is loyal and true and when the entire world is in danger from demonic invasion (or whatever great evil the party is facing this week) he's more than willing to risk his own life for the greater good.

Novels, comics, TV, and movies are just FILLED with dark heros and even villians who fight alongside the heroes when the stakes are high. Why do so many think this is not possible in a D&D game?

If you still just can't see an assassin who's still "on the job" as a part of a heroic party . . . have your PC be a former assassin (but still of the assassin class and skill set) who now fights the good fight. Hounded by his former comrades because he broke ranks, perhaps even former friends.

I have played with some jerks in the past who somehow thought playing an assassin (or other dark character) gave them a license to screw with the party and kill random NPCs . . . that I certainly won't ever tolerate again!

 

[Dragonhelm]

The assassin in D&D is simply a dark hero. Not necessarily an evil hero, just a dark one.

I think this statement summarizes what I'm coming away from this thread with. I have gained a lot of insight on the assassin, for which I can't thank you guys enough.

I think what was throwing me was the false idea that assassins were evil. That's not necessarily true. They do dirty work that others don't want to, but it can be for a good cause, such as serving your country. Or, maybe you're a character seeking redemption (which I always find interesting). There's a lot of ways you can tackle it.

As for them being loners, it's true, but then again we see that with the avenger as well. Heck, any number of characters can be loners. It's up to the party to work out how the assassin can function as part of the overall group.

Would I play one? Maybe, if I could get a good character concept going. I doubt I'll be rushing to play one, though. *shrugs*

 

[Rel]

They can be, if you feel there's a difference between assassination and making war. Certainly, in methodology, the party can be more about war, and less about assassination, if they so choose.

Oh I don't disagree with you that there is a difference there. However one of the primary distinctions always made between "soldiers" and "spies" (or assassins) is that soldiers wear uniforms and are clearly identifiable as enemy combatants. This is seldom the case in with the adventuring parties in most campaigns I've run or played (although it has happened once or twice). So I think in a lot of situations the PC's are just glorified assassins but are rarely referred to as such.

Also let me be clear that I agree that D&D is meant to be played as a group game and there is not much space in such a game for individual PC's to be haring off from the group to assassinate a particular individual (whether there is a moral justification for doing so or not). So any player of an Assassin in my games would need to make that accomodation.

However this is also a good place to point out that, if you find yourself ever running a game for only one player, the Assassin is kind of ready-made for that. I ran a similar game a long time ago for a guy who played a "Bounty Hunter". And a few years later I did a game for two players where they were an Assassin/Thief combo who were trying to work their way up in a criminal organization. Both of those campaigns were much enjoyed by all participants because you can do different things with a single player or pair of players than you can with a group.

 

[Desdichado]

As a great example of that, look at something like drnuncheon's Freeport story hour (from back in the day; this was posted years ago.) Only two PCs, and both of them (arguably) could have been represented by the Assassin class. Or at least an assassin archetype. I think they really did it as 3e fighter/rogue combos, mostly.

 

[JoeGKushner]

In marve comics, in addition to allsual suspects, there is one I rarely think of even though his origin is assassin based: shang chi, master of kung fu, who after completing an initial mission realizes that it is wrong.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Waylander from David Gemmell's Drenai novels became an assassin while seeking revenge on his family's killers.

He then turns to the light* and uses such skills to kill the bad guys.



*Infected with goodness might be a better phrase though.

Indeed. Waylander is the first thing I thought of when reading this thread. While not an especially "good" character, he was indeed a hero.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I realized last night that there's another hurdle that is in my way where the assassin is concerned. Lack of inspiring art. The art I've seen for the 4e assassin is somewhat lackluster, IMO. Art can be one of the biggest inspirations for heroic archetypes out there.

So I did some searching. There is, of course, the 3.5 assassin, which is an improvement...

There's also lots of other good art out there. One thing that really inspired me was from the Assassin's Creed games. Now, I've never played them and I don't know much about them beyond the trailer, but the visual of the white-clad assassin (showing some sense of purity?) coupled with a mission of vengeance seemed more appealing than a murderous thug for hire. Here's some pics:

Now, compare that to this:

Not so inspiring.

So the whole visual adds so much.

 

[awesomeocalypse]

Assassin's Creed always struck me as more Avenger-esque, really.

But honestly, all of the issues with playing an assassin (loner, morally ambiguous) already existed with the avenger since the avenger is basically just a holy assassin. And I see people play avengers in groups all the time without trouble.

 

[delericho]

The James Bond of the books is clearly an assassin. That's the whole point of the license to kill. He is also a spy but the whole double o thing is indicative that he is an assassin of the state. My favorite of the stories is "A View to a Kill," which is all about his experience, waiting at a window to shoot a russian assassin who has orders to shoot someone else.

That would be "The Living Daylights", in which Bond eventually disobeys his orders and chooses to wound, rather than kill, the enemy sniper.

 

[delericho]

Casino Royale, the book, specifies that to become a 00 agent, you had to kill at least one person in cold blood during an assignment. 00 Agents aren't sent into a situation unless people need to die.

That's in the film, right at the start. I don't think it's in the book (which I read about a year ago, so might be misremembering).

As M says in the movie version... he's a blunt instrument.

Indeed. In the novels, this line belongs to Blofeld. The Bond of the novels is not a blunt instrument at all. Which actually strengthens the argument for him as an assassin - the scalpel to cut out the enemy's heart, rather than the club with which to beat him to death.