At last - my AD&D campaign has started!

[Water Bob]

1E is about rule zero. That IS playing by the rules. Rules lawyers keep out. Plat 3E if you want rules (and I do play 3E currently).

I tend to agree, but that really doesn't make our like opinion correct. That's just our interpretation of 1E. The rules say what the rules say.

Any "rule" that you have to think about and that interrupts the flow of play is not RAI in 1E.

RAI is something, really, that we can never know. We've just got our opinions...and what is written on the page.

Luckily in this case the math is really easy, but in practice, if I had to make a call, I would either roll a d8 (close enough) or let the Ranger roll his d6, then if he got the one I would roll a d10 and nullify the surprise on a 9 or 10 (also close enough).

I'd prolly rule in favor of the player, allowing the Ranger roll, not allowing the dwarf roll to overrule the Ranger's ability. I think it's better to have the PCs overrule the NPC's in these situations.

 

[MerricB]

At the end of our last session, the party had almost completed the quest: they'd done everything except defeat the evil priest. (For real old-school players, the Anti-Cleric). So, all they had to do was enter the dungeon, reach the priest, and kill him - right?

Ah, if only it were that easy.

I took the opportunity to introduce the duergar to my campaign. I've been a fan of the duergar for many years now, and had always been intending to use them in a major way. For this norse-themed campaign, it seemed the perfect time. So, when the group reached the priest's lair, they discovered that the priest was missing, but there was a suspicious, recently-dug set of stairs leading to some tunnels below...

Unfortunately, this was really as far as my planning had got: I'd been very, very busy at work, so I had the basic plan of the structure of the session, but little actual details - such as a map!

This didn't deter me; I just opened my DMG to the Random Dungeon appendix and took it from there. I've run several sessions in the past (even with 3E) using that system, and as long as remember to use my judgement, it works pretty well. And so it did on this occasion. I made a basic decision that the duergar were to the east and a tribe of rival orcs were to the west, and then used that to help plan the structure of the dungeon.

Of particular note, the group first ran into the entrance to the duergar lair - protected by an archway filled with mist. Which managed to send to sleep or shock those who tried to pass without first disabling it, which the group was unable to do on first attempt. They decided to go another way, and headed back west.

There they discovered one of my all-time favourite tricks in the dungeon: an elevator room. Unusually, the dwarf of the group actually detected it for what it was and the group managed to avoid getting trapped on the second level of the dungeon. Good for them!

So, back to the initial room and with both east and west explored lightly, they headed north. They ran into some orcs who they actually talked to and told them that the duergar lived to the east. A second group of orcs were then attacked, slept, and one taken as a slave.

They then returned to the misty archway, and used the orc to disable it - incredibly, on the first try. From there, shriekers alerted the duergar to their approach, and they fought several battles with the relatively unprepared dark dwarves. They weren't able to penetrate far into the stronghold, however, before they ran low on hit points, spells and healing, and were forced to retreat. They did so by a northern route which linked back to the way in, hinting at a back door into the duergar stronghold.

Due to the gems carried by many of the duergar, they gained a good number of XP, although Adam's elf still hadn't reached 2nd level in either of his classes.

Exactly what the duergar were doing with the priest was still unclear, but given how far the group had come in this session, answers couldn't be that far behind.

 

[Water Bob]

[MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION]

So, I'm still curious. Are you running the game per the book, or do you have some sort of homebrew set-up.

I'm curious because I'm interested in how by-the-book AD&D games go (as I've been considering running one of those in the future).

 

[MerricB]

Question - I love 1st edition AD&D, but how about that combat system, huh? It could be written in Martian and not be more confusing.

Are you playing the combat system as written, by the book, or have you house ruled it?

It is impossible to play the initiative system as written - it leaves too much out, or contradicts itself. Instead, I use my judgement and run a system inspired by what Gary described... but not actually the system as written.

The main reason I like AD&D is its Player's Handbook. The options available as classes, races and spells are just so much richer than Moldvay's Basic D&D, which otherwise stands as the best explanation of the actual rules of the game.

The DMG, as an explanation of the rules of the game, is a failure.

Cheers!

 

[Water Bob]

It is impossible to play the initiative system as written - it leaves too much out, or contradicts itself.

Hey, man, I was just curious. I don't think I've ever met anyone who used AD&D as written, though I'm sure there are some Dragonsfoot grognards that do.

I'm interested in the as-written rules just to see how they would play out. I don't think it is impossible, but it is definitely the most complicated combat system ever published for a D&D edition.

Heck, we used to use a d10 for initiative, threw it individually, and then used DEX reaction bonus and weapon speed factor to modify nish. That's totally against what is written, and we were quite surprised when 2E AD&D came out and used the same system. But, hey, it worked for us at the time. Don't think I'd run 1E AD&D like that today, though.

I think I might start a thread and check other people's experiences with it.

Instead, I use my judgement and run a system inspired by what Gary described... but not actually the system as written.

I wouldn't mind hearing how you run your combat rounds, if you want to share.

The DMG, as an explanation of the rules of the game, is a failure.

I don't think so. I like its quirkiness. Maybe it's nostalgia.

 

[MerricB]

The "system" for initiative I use goes as follows:

Initiative dice are d6; highest wins.

Spells are cast on the segment of the round as indicated by their casting time, so a 1 segment spell is cast during the first segment of the round. (Initiative modifies otherwise tied results).

The first Missile fire and Weapon strikes occur on the segment of the round determined by the opponent's roll. Missile fire initiative is adjusted by Dex modifier.

Charging: longest weapon strikes first. (Missiles & spells will normally strike before charges).

Tied initiative: fastest weapon strikes first.

At present, no-one has multiple attacks/round, but they'll strike first/last when they do.

However, all of that might be abandoned dependent on my judgement in the combat, or in the aid of simplicity when there's a lot of players (we had 8 players in the game last night, with another two willing but I wasn't able to accommodate them!). Last night's session was session #6, so I still have a few reports to write. We're discussing having some of the players take on DMing duties so there'd be two dungeons running at once, and perhaps even allowing me a chance to play. We'll see how it goes.

Cheers!

 

[Flatus Maximus]

I played it too, for many years. 1E AD&D was my introduction to role playing. But, I played as I was taught, not as (I discovered much later) as laid out in the 1E AD&D DMG.

Have you looked at that system, or are you playing the way someone has taught you--the way you've always played? To this day, there are still arguments about how AD&D is supposed to be played by the rules.

Obviously the rules weren't written in the clearest manner, thus DMs had to interpret and do their best. If you are looking for a definitive answer, then you'll wait a long time.

Now, please, stop littering MerricB's thread about his AD&D campaign. Please, start a thread on AD&D initiative/combat if you are that interested in folk's thoughts.

 

[MerricB]

Session 4: The Elevator Room

Our first session after Christmas saw both Chris and Adam unable to make it, but there were certainly enough players to make up the difference. Ben and Paul got their first chance to play AD&D this week, and Ben was able to roll up a ranger! Our last session had seen the group find the duergar encampment and learn that the evil priest they were chasing was held there. So, of course, this session would see them chase the priest, right?

That would have been too easy.

1 Flocktime, 601 CY
Instead of the group going east towards the duergar, they headed off west, and made their way into the elevator room they discovered before Christmas. Unfortunately, Chris - who had the map - wasn't there, and Callun (who was playing the dwarf who identified the room) wasn't there either. I gleefully neglected to tell them what was going on, causing Reece - who had taken up the mapping chores - to get his map hilariously wrong as they exited the room on a lower level, believing it was the same level as before.

In fact, I did describe the passages differently, but the group didn't take note...

Thus it was that they entered a section of the dungeon that consisted of a number of shrines to the Norse gods. Although I'm running this game in Greyhawk, I've decided that the Frost Barbarian people worship the Norse gods (Odin, Thor, etc.) I haven't highlighted it yet, but Odin is being held captive somewhere - as he's the equivalent of Vatun in the Greyhawk cosmology.

(Although, to be fair, the original play in the Greyhawk game did use some of the Norse gods - a lot of the ones we have today are later, literary additions).

The most prominent here was a temple to Loki, now inhabited by giant spiders, but something that might get more attention later was a large unopenable door in the room to the north which depicted a rainbow on it. (Students of Norse Mythology might have a clue as to where that door leads.) No-one in the party took especial notice of what it might be.

By now, their attention was turning more to how to get out of the dungeon; after a lot of confused wandering around and swearing at Reece, they'd finally identified the elevator room as the cause of their trouble, and searched everywhere in it for some way to trigger it back up. No trigger was found, and so they went looking elsewhere in the dungeon for a solution.

To the south, they discovered 13 hobgoblins - some were slain, some were put to sleep, and the remainder fled past the group northwards. As it turned out, they fled to the elevator room! The party followed them and, upon interrogating them, discovered that it would return upwards after a few hours. So, we had the amusing thought of hobgoblins and PCs sitting around a elevator room waiting for it to activate. (I feel like there should be a cartoon here). However, in fact the PCs kicked the hobgoblins out.

So, the group finally got back to the upper level of the dungeon and from there went back to the village. After a few days of healing, they returned once more to the dungeon.

4 Flocktime, 601 CY
This time they actually went to the duergar lair, but with Chris away, no-one could remember the code to disable the misty archway trap that led into the lair. Still, it had only six possible combinations. How hard could it be?

As it turned out: terribly difficult. The group took a large number of magical shocks - five in all - before they disarmed it on the sixth try. Sigh. The group didn't stay long though, just fighting a few skeletons and duergar before retreating (mainly for damage through the portal). And that was all we had time for this session.

 

[grodog]

Congrats on getting the campaign going, Merric!

If you're looking for a reason for the duergar to grab the evil priest/necromancer, perhaps they need him to deal with some tappers in their mines?

 

[Water Bob]

Our first session after Christmas saw both Chris and Adam unable to make it, but there were certainly enough players to make up the difference. Ben and Paul got their first chance to play AD&D this week, and Ben was able to roll up a ranger! Our last session had seen the group find the duergar encampment and learn that the evil priest they were chasing was held there. So, of course, this session would see them chase the priest, right?

That would have been too easy.

Interesting that you game with different players. I've heard of others doing that, but I've always had a standing rule: We all play or nobody plays.

I figure that, if I'm going to put all the time it takes to GM a game into this thing for everybody, the least the players can do is all show up when the game proceeds.

How do you reconcile new characters on the scene? And, what do you do with the old characters that were already there but now have no player to play them?