At Least 4 Months For Conversion Documents

Those waiting for official conversion documents from earlier editions of D&D to 5th edition are going to have to wait a bit longer. WotC's Mike Mearls says that "the person who needs to do the final approvals on them is serving on a jury that will take another 4 or so months. Sorry!" So it looks like we're talking July/August at the earliest. Thanks to Adrian for the scoop.

 

[Mark CMG]

I would ask why. I mean, why argue a position with people who have no ability to change the situation? What constructive point is there to arguing over it?

Stating an issue that exists as problematic allows it to be openly discussed and when others disagree with a position they engage in civil debate to test their own theories as well as to come to a better understanding of the positions of others. I see no reason for you and I to have a meta-argument for the reasons that people have discussions and subsequent arguments. If it is against board policy to have these discussions or to have subsequent debates then please issue a warning as a moderator. Otherwise, I'd just as soon not go down another rabbit hole with you at your instigation, please.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

What is expected in a conversion guide? Just one generic guide to work for every module ever written? A guide for each editon's module. A guide for each module? Not every class or race or monster is yet in 5E, so we need different substitutions. Most monsters are either stronger or weaker than in previous editions, or even mixed (like stronger offensively but weaker defensively). Magic item expectations are very different from all previous editions. Treasure levels are different. Many spells work differently, or don't exist, or are on different class lists. Saves are different. Villians need to be converted to 5E equivalents, but individually must fit the story by theme as well as abilities. Bounded Accuracy changes things a lot.

This. I really don't get the driving need for this. They aren't going to convert all previous monsters, and the DMG has guidelines for making your own monsters. A new monster book is probably among the first rule supplements we'd see.

Converting characters? Just remake them as best you can and kill off your magical gear. Warlord players get told to just play a crappy battlemaster, everyone else just remakes their character. 4E? Reduce your level by a third since there's only 20 levels. The old guidelines for 1st/2nd edition to third would work for multiclass, since 5E is basically back to 3E's multiclass rules. And no one really multiclassed in 4E outside of the feat anyways because the system sucked.

What are people really expecting here? What are people really expecting from this? I saw Sir Antoine hopes that it will convert 5th to 2nd, but I'd wager it almost assuredly won't. Conversion guides generally point you towards the edition in print, not the other way around.

 

[Trickster Spirit]

I do and I will continue to argue that position.


Nope, it's not the choice. It's what you have allowed yourself to be convinced is the choice. What we have is no choice and we get what we get. What I am arguing is that we would get better from a larger staff, and you agree. So, we've gone round the tree and we agree on the cause but you've come to terms with the result and I have not. I think you and I are just going to have to leave ourselves at that point since we are repeating ourselves.

The fans would get better from a larger staff, yes. The only question that matters though is if WotC would get better were there to be a larger staff.

If the increased profits from more products aren't significantly bigger than the increased expenses of paying more staff / printing storing and distributing said products, than what obligation do they have to put that money into a larger D&D team? They could put it elsewhere and see a larger return and so that is what they have done.

 

[Mark CMG]

Converting characters? Just remake them as best you can and kill off your magical gear. Warlord players get told to just play a crappy battlemaster, everyone else just remakes their character. 4E? Reduce your level by a third since there's only 20 levels. The old guidelines for 1st/2nd edition to third would work for multiclass, since 5E is basically back to 3E's multiclass rules. And no one really multiclassed in 4E outside of the feat anyways because the system sucked.

That's probably some good basic conversion advice. I think that would be enough to get many of us here on EN World started on dealing with a conversion on our own though we'd probably miss more than a few things without a standard official checklist of some kind. And we'd certainly not all come out with the same results though I'd imagine some of the conclusions would at least be similar. Good start!

 

[weldon]

What I'd like to see in the conversion guide are guidelines for adjusting challenges (monsters, NPCs, traps, skill challenges, etc.) from modules produced for previous editions. I don't really have a desire for guidelines to convert PCs over. What I want is to use old modules with brand new 5e PCs.

I'd want settings conversion guides for every previously supported setting, everything from Al Qadim to Dark Sun (similar to the Eberron guide). These could be released as playtest documents that are open to revision and fine tuning, but represent a starting point with which to engage the player community in the discussion. These setting conversion guides do not have to preclude Wizards from making brand new setting books or box sets. Just something to help people that have long-running campaigns set in certain worlds start running their games with new 5e characters.

If I were really allowing myself to daydream, I'd want 2-3 page guides for the 10 most popular modules from each edition. Pointing out issues, suggesting tweaks, discussing where 5e mechanics like advantage could be used, etc. Those guides would have prominent links to purchase the modules from dndclassics.com to justify the effort.

If I get some of this in 4 months, I'll still be happy. I'll be finishing up PotA about then and it should work out perfectly.

 

[Mark CMG]

The fans would get better from a larger staff, yes.

Okay, we have some common ground.

The only question that matters though is if WotC would get better were there to be a larger staff.

Well, not the only question but I agree it is an important one.

If the increased profits from more products aren't significantly bigger than the increased expenses of paying more staff / printing storing and distributing said products, than what obligation do they have to put that money into a larger D&D team? They could put it elsewhere and see a larger return and so that is what they have done.

You're arguing from of position of believing it is a foregone conclusion that profits trump quality, support, and customer satisfaction (not that quality, support, and/or customer satisfaction can be completely ignored, just that profits always trump them). No matter what I say and no matter what you argue, you will always wind up at that result. At least we agree there is a staffing problem.

 

[delericho]

Converting characters? Just remake them...

I take it you weren't around for the 4e conversion, when WotC said there would be no guide coming and that everyone should just start new campaigns? If you think this is bad, well, it's nothing by comparison.

 

[lyle.spade]

4 months? That's a hell of a trial.

It's probably a grand jury. Most people are summoned for petit juries (what we typically just call juries), and those are usually short - it's very rare to have a trial go longer than a few days. Grand Juries, on the other hand, have the job of determining whether or not people are indicted for crimes. They don't do trials...they go over heaps of paperwork and such from the state to determine whether or not some is to be charged in the first place. This requires a good bit of training on the front end for these people, and then they have a stack of cases to work through, usually, before that Grand Jury is dismissed, their work done.

And there's your American civics lesson for the day!

(I used to teach American Gov't...couldn't help myself)

 

[Tormyr]

What I'd like to see in the conversion guide are guidelines for adjusting challenges (monsters, NPCs, traps, skill challenges, etc.) from modules produced for previous editions. I don't really have a desire for guidelines to convert PCs over. What I want is to use old modules with brand new 5e PCs.

This is what we have been doing in my 3.5 AP conversion. For encounter difficulty, I make a medium encounter for a party of the same level as the 3.5 Encounter Level regardless of the level of the party. So if I have 4 level 10 PCs in an EL 13 encounter, I make a medium encounter for 4 level 13 PCs. This becomes a hard encounter for the 10th level party.

 

[DaveMage]

I would ask why. I mean, why argue a position with people who have no ability to change the situation? What constructive point is there to arguing over it?

Are you new to EN World?