D&D 5E Attack bonus equals Strength AND Dexterity, not Strength OR Dexterity.

[doctorbadwolf]

That's fine, then. As I feel I have a firm grasp on encounter design in 5E as it was "intended", I don't like bumping stuff for PCs up because then I have to either bump up monsters or throw harder things at them, making lower CR monsters even less of a threat than many already are.

I do agree, however, every monster/NPC should have at least one proficient save and two skills, and we commonly give them to opponents and NPCs on the fly to make them more interesting and/or useful.

Fair enough, I’ve found that my changes help low CR critters stay relevant longer, though, so maybe I’ve communicated poorly?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Fair enough, I’ve found that my changes help low CR critters stay relevant longer, though, so maybe I’ve communicated poorly?

Nope. It's all good. If it works for you and your tables that's great. I just find higher scores require too much "fixing" of everything else to keep things even. Of course, I am still playing around with "disadvantage" on attack rolls and other changes I started in the prior thread.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If I thought it would be an issue that there aren't that many characters with high STR and high DEX... I'd just put more things in the world that require using them. Encumbrance will oftentimes punish the 8 STR characters, and penalties for extended wearing of heavy armor will punish the 8 DEX characters who want to just walk around in Splitmail for 10 hours of the day. Thus they'd both be less likely to dump a stat.

Although my real thought is that I never look at my player's character sheets anyway so I barely know what any of their stats are and thus couldn't care less if any of them do or do not have high STR and DEX. It's their characters, they can stat them and build them however they want. I don't "grow bored" with repetitive builds because I never look to see what those builds are.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If I thought it would be an issue that there aren't that many characters with high STR and high DEX... I'd just put more things in the world that require using them. Encumbrance will oftentimes punish the 8 STR characters, and penalties for extended wearing of heavy armor will punish the 8 DEX characters who want to just walk around in Splitmail for 10 hours of the day.

We do use variant encumbrance and keep strict track of it within 5 lbs anyway. We don't see dump STR or DEX for martials, anyway, but I would like a way to reward the more "good" STR/DEX builds instead of just the ones that strive for high STR or DEX only.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It depends on what you mean by "focuses". The cap is still +5, so a STR 16/ DEX 16 PC is +5 on attack rolls. Will he be better than a PC that is STR 16/ DEX 10? Of course, and he should be IMO. Now, by level 6 that STR 16/DEX 10 can easily be STR 20, matching the first PC in attack bonus and outstripping them in damage by 2 points. Also, if that PC is STR 16/ DEX 16, odds are the second PC has better scores elsewhere, so it is really just a case on where you focus.

Also, I know the default is rolling, but none of the groups I play in have done that in nearly two years because it leads to "uber-PCs" who by luck are just better at most things. Other players rarely feel their PC can match up. Of course its best if you don't think that way... but IME most people do. Unfortunate, but true.

Definitely true, but that hasn't stopped my players from insisting on rolling. They either hope to get lucky (and often do), or love the tactile experience of rolling dice.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Definitely true, but that hasn't stopped my players from insisting on rolling. They either hope to get lucky (and often do), or love the tactile experience of rolling dice.

The problem I've seen more in rolling is one person rolls great and so when someone else doesn't they want to try again... and again... and again...

I've played in game were everyone rolled and then collectively decided what set of stats to use and everyone used the same stats. But, you have better scores with that, which personally I am not a fan of.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The problem I've seen more in rolling is one person rolls great and so when someone else doesn't they want to try again... and again... and again...

I've played in game were everyone rolled and then collectively decided what set of stats to use and everyone used the same stats. But, you have better scores with that, which personally I am not a fan of.

I would love it if PC stats were more in line with what you expect from point buy or the array, it would be so much easier to design adventures (especially since I and my players like feats and magic items). But that's not what you get when you roll.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I would love it if PC stats were more in line with what you expect from point buy or the array, it would be so much easier to design adventures (especially since I and my players like feats and magic items). But that's not what you get when you roll.

That's kind of the point, though, is they won't be far off in theory at least.

The expected scores for rolling 4d6-L would be 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9. This is two points better than the current standard array.

But trade-off is you are likely to get slightly better scores, and you could do really well, but you could also roll much worse. The problem is in practice, few people will accept the "much worse" scenario and just re-roll instead. You saw it a lot more in 1E and 2E...

FWIW, if you want to roll but keep things more in line with the standard array and point-buy, roll d6+d4+6. You have a range of 8-16 with an average of 12. This is the same average as the standard array (12). Yes, you can get a better average with point-buy, but it isn't so much compared to what happens with rolling 4d6-L.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Martial arts benefit from strength and dexterity with training.

an average of str and dex makes sense for melee attacks and discourages a lot of stat dumping.

I think indexes make sense for many tasks. It increases complexity of course. As far as that goes, I could also imagine spells requiring willpower? Judgment and intellect...

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The only way I'll randomly participate in rolling for stats is if the PCs are guaranteed to have equal stats to each other. I know some people basically let you just keep re-rolling until your results are at least equivalent to a standard array, but that really wouldn't do it. It just isn't enjoyable for me to have a character this is objectively inferior by the rules than the other PCs, because "has inferior stats to his companions" is literally never part of any character concept I've made in D&D.