Attacking from Improved Invisibility

[tenelo]

Hi guys.

This one came up in game last night and nearly caused a screaming match between DM and his brother.

When a creature under an Improved Invisibility spell attacks (using the invisibility spell's definition of "attack", so offensive spells, melee attacks, dominate person etc) does he become briefly visible before becoming invisible again?

The contention is about the fact that the Improved Invisibility spell description just says "as Invisibility, but attacking does not cause the spell to end". Ordinary Invisibility has two consequences of attacking - 1. You become visible and 2. The spell ends.

If you treat the consequences as two different things, under Improved Invisibility, condition 1 applies when you make an attack, but condition 2 doesn't. If you treat 1 and 2 as two ways of saying the exact same thing, then under Improved Invisibility, neither condition applies.

My position is that I find it unlikely that the designers would have added redundant text, saying the same thing twice, so the two consequences are intended to be separate. I cannot back this position up with written reference however, so I appeal to the EN World boards vast knowledge of stuff like this.

There's no ill will here, the group I play with just wants clarification, so we can apply the rules fairly and consistently.

Thanks in advance for the help.

tenelo

 

[Hypersmurf]

Invisibility: "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature."

Improved Invisibility: "As Invisibility, but attacking does not cause the spell to end."

There aren't two consequences of attacking while under Invisibility; there's one. You become visible because the spell ends.

With Improved Invisibility, you remain invisible while attacking.

-Hyp.

 

[rushlight]

Hypersmurf nailed it, but I usually add in another bit.

If an Imp. Invis. person makes a melee attack against someone else, then the target knows from which square the attack occured (imparting a 50% miss chance on a return attack, assuming that they are still there when it's your initiative) or for ranged attacks, they know the square from which the projectile originated (since the ivis. doesn't apply once the projectile leaves your possession). Magical effects are similar if there are visible effects that project from you (like Magic Missle, Fireball, etc.).

 

[Darklone]

The designers often used redundant text in the PHB to state something explicitely using similar formulations for similar things.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Double Post.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If an Imp. Invis. person makes a melee attack against someone else, then the target knows from which square the attack occured.

And that's what 5' steps or longspears are for...

If you attack with greater than a 5' reach, you're not pinpointed.
And if you 5' step after you attack, it screws things up for your opponent

-Hyp.