Pathfinder 2E Attacking while burrowing?

mellored

Legend
Can you attack while burrowing?

Like, if I use spring from the shadows Spring from the Shadows - Feats - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I stay underground (i.e. full cover), or do I need to surface, or something in between (cover).

How about intangible spells like amped phase Bolt The Unbound Step - Conscious Minds - Psychic - Classes - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I cast spells underground?

Or ghost arrows*? Ghost Ammunition - Equipment - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I hide 10' underground making ranged strikes against creatures above ground?

*with blind fighting + tremorsense or similar.
 

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Can you attack while burrowing?

Like, if I use spring from the shadows Spring from the Shadows - Feats - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I stay underground (i.e. full cover), or do I need to surface, or something in between (cover).

By its nature I'd say you'd get cover if you stayed in the hole you created, but you'd have to at least create the hole.

How about intangible spells like amped phase Bolt The Unbound Step - Conscious Minds - Psychic - Classes - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I cast spells underground?

I suppose I would count it as targeting an undetected foe since you can't see them, but I can understand an argument for not letting it work.. When burrowing there doesn't seem to be any restrictions once you stop, so I suppose you could still technically cast spells.

Or ghost arrows*? Ghost Ammunition - Equipment - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database
Can I hide 10' underground making ranged strikes against creatures above ground?

*with blind fighting + tremorsense or similar.

lmfao

Yes, though blind-fighting only makes a target not-hidden, so you'd still have the 5+ roll on a d20 to just outright miss. But also this sounds f***ing hilarious.
 

mellored

Legend
lmfao

Yes, though blind-fighting only makes a target not-hidden, so you'd still have the 5+ roll on a d20 to just outright miss. But also this sounds f***ing hilarious.
Things for getting around hidden with a ranged strike...

Starlit eyes, focus spell
True strike/target, 1 attack with advantage
Golbin-eye orb, talisman.

Think that's. Several to reduce hidden to DC5, but none better than blind sight.

So I will probably just go with rogue. Feels like a rogue thing to do, and they will be flat footed for sneak attack, and have skills to get into other safe position.
Ghost Arrows also come back after 1d4 days, so that's great. This is a repeatable tactic.

I'm also taking spyglass modification +wide overwatch (overwatch dedication) and seeker arrow (Eldritch archer dedication). So I can shoot around corners.

Any recommendations on ancestry? Oread can give me tremorsense and burrowing.
 

Things for getting around hidden with a ranged strike...

Starlit eyes, focus spell
True strike/target, 1 attack with advantage
Golbin-eye orb, talisman.

Think that's. Several to reduce hidden to DC5, but none better than blind sight.

So I will probably just go with rogue. Feels like a rogue thing to do, and they will be flat footed for sneak attack, and have skills to get into other safe position.
Ghost Arrows also come back after 1d4 days, so that's great. This is a repeatable tactic.

I'm also taking spyglass modification +wide overwatch (overwatch dedication) and seeker arrow (Eldritch archer dedication). So I can shoot around corners.

Any recommendations on ancestry? Oread can give me tremorsense and burrowing.

I've never even considered such a wild build, so Oread is probably the best. If you really want to have fun with your GM, put a bit into Athletics so you can grapple using Spring From Shadows and get a bit of this.

a2bdb7635f34952e651d735f05bb2a0cc8cf77b8.gifv
 


aco175

Legend
My first thought would be to say no. Burrowing is a speed like swimming or walking. You would need to move adjacent to the target and be able to attack. I take this to mean that you need to be not underground and need to still burrow up to attack. There may also be prone problems.

I could see some sort of ability or feat that allows you to boulette blast or fly by attack similar.
 

mellored

Legend
My first thought would be to say no. Burrowing is a speed like swimming or walking. You would need to move adjacent to the target and be able to attack.
If your flying or swimming right above someone, within 5', you are adjacent. So if your 5' below them, you would also be adjacent.

So I guess it's just a question of cover.
Is being right under the surface considered full cover?
Could you "lean out" of cover, attack, and hide back into cover?

I take this to mean that you need to be not underground and need to still burrow up to attack. There may also be prone problems.
Not sure where you got prone from, but maybe I missed something.
Are you prone when flying or swimming?
I could see some sort of ability or feat that allows you to boulette blast or fly by attack similar.
There are a few things that let you fly, swim, and even climb without provoking an opportunity attack, but burrow seems to be intentionally missing from them.

You can use Mobility when Climbing, Flying, or Swimming instead of Striding if you have the corresponding movement type.

Compared to this one for instance.

You can use Reactive Pursuit to Burrow, Climb, Fly, or Swim instead of Stride if you have the corresponding movement type.

So any attempt to re burrow after attacking would provoke. Since your leaving an adjacent square and burrow is a move. (Assuming they have any).
 

aco175

Legend
If your flying or swimming right above someone, within 5', you are adjacent. So if your 5' below them, you would also be adjacent.
I was mostly thinking that no other animal with a burrowing speed has an attack from below ground and that you cannot swing a sword through the ground. The ground would need to be cleared away first, which would require you to burrow the last 5ft.
 

mellored

Legend
I was mostly thinking that no other animal with a burrowing speed has an attack from below ground and that you cannot swing a sword through the ground. The ground would need to be cleared away first, which would require you to burrow the last 5ft.
Is there rules for that somewhere?

I mean, it's a fair ruling, the DM could use it against me as well. Just wondering if there are rules.
 

Is there rules for that somewhere?

I mean, it's a fair ruling, the DM could use it against me as well. Just wondering if there are rules.

I mean, I think all that would be required would be to spend the movement speed to clear the space, even if you don't occupy it. It'd be like digging the square out in front of you without moving into it. I might make rulings on what weapons you can use to attack (probably light piercing like a short sword), but otherwise that'd be enough for me.
 

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