Attn everyone: Fantasy world arms race experiment!

[Saeviomagy]

While the plains tribe don't know how to MAKE fire, it's not going to take long for them to work out that eventually it goes out on its own, or that it can be put out via various means, or that it doesn't immediately leap onto anything - it can be poked and prodded with implements for a bit before they catch fire.

The rock-throwing isn't likely to have much of an effect - especially not against spear-throwing, so it's not too difficult to approach the fires.
The plains tribe use whatever method they develop for extinguishing (or moving) fire to put out a fire or two at cave entrances.
Once that happens, it's not difficult to get the dogs and men into the caves. I'm assuming that the plainsfolk don't have anything bigger than a dog?
The dogs are then at a significant advantage in the dark of the caves, and I can't see the hillsmen surviving long without a radical change in tactics. In addition, while unable to surround the enemy in the tunnels, spearmen are going to be extremely effective.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Peacenik hippie!

hey, I'd give XP for it...

Kahuna Burger

 

[JohnClark]

Sounds interesting, count me in.

 

[LostSoul]

Has the Hill Tribe noticed that large, black humming obelisk right by their watering hole?

The Plains Tribe finds the Hill Tribe's source of water or food and waits for them to attack. With the advantage of defense, the Plains Tribe kills all the men and boys and cross-breeds. Genetic survival of the race is ensured!

 

[2WS-Steve]

For the primarily magical effects on the arms race:

I'd assume that the tribal warriors are mainly Warriors, with the elite being Barbarians and perhaps the odd Ranger or Fighter. It seems that these guys could be higher level than the shamans since magic is still poorly developed. As such:

Damaging effects like magic missle wouldn't have too great an effect other than hurting a few guys and awing the masses. But the masses shouldn't be too awed because magic is a part of their world after all. Sleep would be devastating if we assume small tribes and low level warrior types but I think even stone age tribes would include high level warriors. After all, they spend their entire life killing things and taking their loot

Charming effects would likely be directed at the leader types since they'd be fairly vulnerable even to low powered magic, especially if the shamans had a bunch of talent, albeit lacking skill. In the first conflict this would be devastating since all of the sudden the tribe's leaders would be ordering their followers to do all sorts of crazy things. It wouldn't take too long though for the tribes to realise that they cannot rely on their leaders when fighting magical opponents; this should make them suspicious of anything their leaders say in a fight and make the battles more chaotic with everyone just making their own decisions.

Upshot: formation of warrior-leaders is slowed because you can't follow them in a fight. Who can you trust? Unfortunately the spellcaster, even though you don't normally trust him, is the only one you can have some confidence in during a battle. Since wars make kings of generals, early stone-age tribes should tend towards theoracies or magocracies, at least until the warrior types gain some means of protecting their minds against magic (perhaps with the discovery of divine magic and clerical spells).

Other effect: Tactics develop even more slowly than they did in the real world since tactics go out the window when you can't trust your leadership.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Spears are extremely simple technology, so we can assume that the hill people quickly apopt this weapon. Also, the cave people can fire-harden the spear tips. Fire-hardened sharp sticks are "cheaper", easier to make, and more reliable than stone tips. In D&D terms, I'd make it:

Stone tip spear: 1d6 P x3 (Medium weapon) or 1d8 P x3 (Large weapon). 50% chance of dislodging tip after each successful hit or any throw. A spear without a tip is a club (medium weapon) or quarterstaff (large weapon, can be thrown for 1d6 B x2).
Fire-hardened sharp stick: 1d6-1 P x3 (Medium weapon) or 1d8-1 P x3 (Large weapon)

The Hill People will also quickly realize the advantages of surrounding an enemy. They'll adopt this tactic, and try to avoid getting surrounded.

Anyway, the unique, unduplicatable technological advantages are:
Hill people: caves, fire.
Plains: animal speech, dogs.

The dogs' Scent ability will let them easily identify the Hill People's cave openings. They'll also be able to track individual Hill People hunting parties.

So, I see larger groups of Plains peoples hunting down Hill People hunters. Soon, the Hill People will not have enough hunters left to provide for the tribe. They'll eventually starve in their caves, and once the Hill People are weak enough the Plain people will come in, slay the men, and add the women and children to the tribe.

Recognizing this grim fate, the Hill People shaman will lead a strong contingent of Hill People to the plain. There, he'll set fire to the grasslands, with the intent of starting a massive brush fire that will roast his enemies.

Will the plan succeed? Who knows. But I think the important "Arms Race" developments are:

1. "Scorched earth"/total war (the Hill People are desperate, and will go for total annihilation of their enemy's whole tribe, including valuable women and children)
2. Siege starvation tactic
3. Adapting, integrating, and improving on the captured tools and observed tactics of the enemy

-z

 

[Zaruthustran]

For the primarily magical effects on the arms race:


Charming effects would likely be directed at the leader types since they'd be fairly vulnerable even to low powered magic, especially if the shamans had a bunch of talent, albeit lacking skill. In the first conflict this would be devastating since all of the sudden the tribe's leaders would be ordering their followers to do all sorts of crazy things.

Great post, but charming won't be that big of a factor in this first conflict due to the language barrier. One shaman can Charm an opposing leader, but he wouldn't be able to tell that leader what to do.

-z

 

[Felix]

This remind anyone else of "Quest for Fire"?

The hill people's shaman, a sorc, will lead an expedition to set fire to the plainsmen's camp. The hill warriors armed with spears will surround the camp, and "non-coms" will hurl firey grenades at the plainsmen's stone huts, where the skins will get set on fire. Confusion will reign, the dogs will be scared of the fire weilded by the hill people, the hill spearmen will stab the fleeing plainsmen in the back.

The hill people retire to the comfort of the cave and Lothar quaffs a flagon of mead to his success.

 

[Tonguez]

Some of the Plainsmen however do escape and now they too have the secret of fire. The plainsmen are naturally faster runners than the hillmen (having to spend days at a time running across open grasslands after prey and away from predators). They retreat and allow time to regroup.

The Witch spends time consulting with the Wolf Spirit (remember Prehistoric Dogs ARE semi-domestic Wolves) and they learn the its secret - the Wolf Spirit gives them a great boon*

The Plains folk thus return a year later and with the fire that they have now learnt to master set fire to the Hill tribes forest - destroying the hill tribes food sources whilst effectively extending the Grasslands.

Whenever the vengeful Plainsmen find a hillmen cave they make a mock attack with they intent to force the Hillmen to seek the shelter of the caves, then in the dead of night they sneak in then block the entrances with their fishing nets (thats for you Arken), build pyres outside the entrance and set fire to them smoking the hillsfolk and causing mass suffocation.

Those Hillmen that excape run in to the Plainsfolks secret weapon - the wolf Spirits boon...

(submitted for the Concensus. Is it too early to introduce Lycanthorpy? (ie the Wolf Spirit allows certain warriors to become Hybrid wolfmen. If this is too powerful for the current era then the Wolf Spirits boon is the Beserker Rage (as per Barbarian)

 

[RangerWickett]

Normally I'd say Lycanthropy is a little much, but for the sake of the experiment, I'll give it a go.

So let's see what we have. . . .

Initially the plains folk do well, hitting the hillfolk (who always live in the same place) then fleeing before they incur any major casualties. One attempt to actually drive into the caves turns disastrous, however, when the hillfolk shaman uses his or her powers to create powerful flame that scares off the plainsfolk's animal allies and injures some of the plainsfolk themselves. One of the plainsfolk is captured, and nursed back to health by a young hillfolk shamaness who uses her magic to charm him and bind him to the tribe's fire.

Using his knowledge, under the auspices of defending themselves so they can negotiate, the hillfolk tribe is able to build a few fire-hardened spears, and they learn where the plainsfolk tend to hide, so they plan an ambush, preparing torches to set fire to the grasslands and drive the plainsfolk off.

Meanwhile, the plainsfolk have gotten hold of some of the powerful magic that is the fire, and the lead witch tries to learn how to make use of its power, praying to the stars when the animal spirits will not answer her. The junior witch of the tribe is concerned that the elder witch is being tricked by the gods of the hillfolk, and she tries to gather warriors who are loyal to the animal spirits. There is some division in the tribe, since the elder witch thinks it might be wise to steal more fire from the hillfolk, and possibly even make peace.

Thus, when the hillfolk attack at night, bearing torches to frighten off the plainsfolk's animals, they strike a divided tribe, scattering it. The grass does not burn too far, and of course it is easy for the plainsfolk to move to a new spot, but the numbers of the plainsfolk dwindle. They are weakened even more when the younger witch learns that one of their own betrayed them, and though she does not understand the usag of charm spells, she thinks the elder witch may be charmed as well. The witch is killed (though ironically enough not burned at a stake, since fire is now taboo).

To taunt the plainsfolk, a few days later several wolfskins are left at the edge of the forest, draping off branches. The hillfolk have been eating whatever wolves they capture.

In retaliation, the new head witch assumes control of the tribe and grants the animal spirits' greatest blessing to one of their warriors. For three nights, at the full moon, he transforms into a wolfman, a manbeast, invulnerable to simple wooden and stone weapons. The wolfman terrorizes the hillfolk for two nights, killing many wherever he goes, and only seemingly afraid of fire.

On the third night of the full moon, the werewolf arrives with allies, his fellow tribesfolk carrying skins filled with water that they use to douse the guard fires and darken the caves. In near blackness, the manbeast kills many, until one old hillfolk woman stumbles into the cinders of a dim fire, and pulls out a burned shaft of bone, which she drives into the face of the wolfman, cutting him deeply and driving him off. Only a few hillfolk warriors survive, but they have beaten the beast for now.





Now it's time for a quick wrap-up. Everyone post your thoughts on how you think things turned out, or where they might go from here. I see the hillfolk looking at the bone and determining that only weapons that have an affinity to their foe will be useful, and also only those that are blessed by fire. The plainsfolk, frightened of fire and viewing it as evil magic, neglect to use it as a tool to burn down the forests near the hillfolk caves. Because both sides are weakened, the plainsfolk head south early, and are forever wary of fire. On the other hand, the hillfolk's new fascination with weapons created in fire leads to them eventually, maybe a year or more later, discovering the uses of a soft metal, like copper or gold.