D&D 5E (2014) attrition mechanic

[Bawylie]

Seems like you want a dungeon crawl without actual crawling.

Here's how I'd do it:

Ask players, who is scouting, who is navigating (includes mapping), who is on the rear-guard, and who is carrying all the crap while everyone else is on alert?

Each job gets an appropriate DC (i'd use 15, but it depends on how complex your sewer is) for an ability Check related to the job they're performing. You can modify the rolls by choosing pace if you want (like if time is a factor).

Each check carries consequences. A scout leads people around hazards. A failed check means they run into one (maybe a random encounter or trap).

Your rear guard is like the scout but for ambush encounters. If there is a random encounter, the rear guard's check determines whether or not the party is surprised.

The Navigator's check affects how many random encounters your roll for or whether or not your party gets lost. If they get lost, maybe you all make checks again (albeit at a lower DC, since you have a map and Eliminated one wrong path).

And the person carrying everything makes a check to see if your party arrives at its destination refreshed and ready, or with a level of exhaustion (or maybe missing a couple hit dice, though I'd use exhaustion).

Get the results of each roll. Decide what those results mean, and give a 5 or 6 sentence montage that highlights the journey, particularly some icky sewery details, and the characters' actions. Ask a couple questions like "How does Glenn handle the stench?" And add crap like "something slimy in the knee high water brushes against your thigh."

Whole thing should take you no longer than 10-20 min to run, 30 if you have an encounter or get lost.

Edit to add. You can decide whether aggregate success or failure means they arrive, get lost, or have to turn back. For me, since I want them to arrive, I'd say they need at least 2 people to succeed to get there without getting lost, and even if everyone fails, nothing worse than getting lost happens. I also wouldn't make them get lost more than once, but you could just keep going and reducing the navigator check as often as is fitting with your judgment.

-Brad

 

[jrowland]

I would start with a DC 25. For every check thereafter they get a cumulative +1 on the check.

A "Nat 1": Yeah, suck it up, this is a real encounter. Full on wast-of-time-and-resources.
Fail with Roll 20 or less (as a group): Hazard (as I'm a Banana suggested)
Fail with Roll 21 through 24: A Boon (a safe place to rest, a treasure, a clue that gives another +1 to find Mind Flayer, a way out, etc.)
A "Nat 20": Something cool
A 25 or higher: Grats, you found the Mind Flayer! Please insert head into this vise and prepare for brain extraction.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm thinking some kind of handwavey attrition mechanic could be useful. Like maybe, each time they fail a check, they don't lose their way ... instead they take damage or lose hit dice or have to start making Con checks to avoid exhaustion because they have to keep backtracking and it's tiring work slogging through literal crap and fighting off swarms of diseased rats and the like.

Anyone doing anything like that already? Anyone got any good ideas on how to handle it?

Sure, I've done things like that, a lot in 4e, actually, as part of Skill Challenges. You can have the players make group checks, on a failure, they get a 'random' encounter (and, yeah, go ahead and play through a combat or two with a swarm of centipedes or some ROUSs, 5e combats are quick, and it'll maybe burn off a slot or two as well as some hps or HD).

Another resource you can tick off is time. (Yeah, as always, time pressure would be a good thing to force somehow). Failed checks mean wasted time. A short rest to spend HD or recover abilities means time. Hours, since that's a short rest, might be a good unit to work with. Or block of 10 or 15 minutes, maybe, making an hour short rest a major decision, and shifting attrition from HD back to hp (and hosing short-rest-recharge abilities).

Depends on the rationalization for obligatory time pressure you can come up with.

 

[pukunui]

The problem I see with any of these methods of removing or limiting the mundane or boring parts of the adventure is this;
Without variety, the dramatic moments are not dramatic because they have no context or relative value.

If all you ever bother with is fighting BBEGs, then BBEGs are just the same as if all you ever do is fight common guys.

If all you eat is your favorite dessert, it gets boring.

Without context, variety and pacing, the exciting moments are not very exciting.

I know your play time is limited and precious, therefore pacing and variety is, imo, even more important.

My campaign provides heaps of variety, and they're not always fighting BBEGs. There's plenty of exploration and variety in the mind flayer's lair even. I'm not going to skip over all that and just have them arrive in the room with the mind flayer in it. I just want to fast-forward past the bit in the sewers. It's not the focus of the adventure. The mind flayer's lair is.

Seems like you want a dungeon crawl without actual crawling.

No, I'm looking forward to the actual dungeon crawl. It's the getting there part that I'd like to handwave away.

 

[pukunui]

I just remembered that I've actually done this before! When I was running HotDQ, and the group was heading into the Mere of Dead Men to find Castle Naerytar, I didn't want to bother playing out random encounters with giant insects and the like, so I just told them that they'd spent hours trekking through the swamp, slogging through mud, wading through pools, fending off giant frogs and blood-sucking insects. Then I had them roll randomly to see how many resources they'd used up. I think they were 5th level at the time, maybe 6th.

Here are my notes:
All: Lose 1d6 - 1 hit dice
Fighter: 50% chance each that Action Surge and Second wind have been used
Wizard: Loses 1d4 1st level spell slots and 1d4 - 1 2nd level slots; 50% chance that Arcane Recovery has been used
Druid: Loses 1d4 1st level spell slots and 1d4 - 1 2nd level slots; 50% chance wildshape has been used once

The players were OK with that, but then they're all fairly new to D&D. Still, I don't think my more experienced group would balk at something like this.

Also, in that adventure, the PCs were following a clearly marked trail. There was no chance they'd get lost, and no one was having to roll to navigate. So it was really just a matter of how many random encounters popped up along the way. In this case, they are attempting to follow some clues (tracks and other signs) through a sewer network. There is no clear path.

The adventure calls for 1d6 + 3 tracking checks. (It's an old 3.5e adventure.) What if I just have them make a series of group Survival checks until they get three or four successes. For every failed check, they lose some resources. Time isn't really an issue here. They're not trying to reach the mind flayer's lair before it kills someone. They're just trying to find out who is trying to kill them. They don't even know it's a mind flayer yet.

So really I'm just trying to figure what resources to have them lose. Should I just have them lose a hit die per failed check, or should I have them take hit point damage (which they can then choose to spend hit dice on themselves, should they choose to take a short rest before entering the lair)? Should I bother with any other resources, such as spell slots and the like?

The party consists of a bear barbarian / rogue, an eldritch knight, an arcane trickster, and an evoker. They're all 8th level.

 

[Rhenny]

Hi Pukinui - here's something I wrote up a while ago, but I never actually used it yet.

Food for thought.

****

Narrative encounter (s) or travel “Fast Forward” – An abstract way to skip travel, minor exploration and less important encounters.

DM sets up the scene and narrates asking players how they will engage specific tasks or situations along the way. Each scene is a segment of the day. DM asks player to roll checks for actions they will attempt during each segment of the narration.

Results determine possible damage and spell slot usage.

Easy (DC 10) = 1d6 hp of damage or 1 HD spent, 1 spell slot used
Moderate (DC 15) = 3d6 hp of damage or 2 HD spent, 1d4 spell slots used.
Heavy (DC 15) = 6d6 hp of damage or 4 HD spent, 1d4+2 spell slots used (and successful check only grants ½ damage and ½ spell slot loss)

For example, the party must travel through the mountains for 6 hours. During their travels, the weather turns sour. There is a hail storm and soon after, they are attacked by five Peryton. They fight off the attackers and have to traverse a very narrow ridge for 2 more hours before they arrive at a small way station (the place where the actual adventure will begin).

The example above is broken into segments:

1) Travel and Dangerous Hailstorm – Moderate
2) Peryton attack – Heavy
3) Traversing the ridge – Easy


When the DM narrates each segment, he asks each player what he or she will do during the segment. This will determine the check that the PC must make. If the PC succeeds all goes well (unless it was a Heavy DC where even a success will grant ½ damage and ½ spell slot loss. Crit failure indicates 2x loss.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I want to fast-forward through all that, but at the same time, I'd still like to at least acknowledge that it happened. And to that end, I'm thinking some kind of handwavey attrition mechanic could be useful. Like maybe, each time they fail a check, they don't lose their way ... instead they take damage or lose hit dice or have to start making Con checks to avoid exhaustion because they have to keep backtracking and it's tiring work slogging through literal crap and fighting off swarms of diseased rats and the like.

Anyone doing anything like that already? Anyone got any good ideas on how to handle it?

I do exactly that for combats that don't matter. "You can either play this fight out in detail, or everyone can take 2d6 damage or spend one spell slot, and move on." The amount of resources I charge is based on my best guess of how much it would cost them to do it for real, although I try to err in the players' favor. That way there is no metagame pressure to play things out in detail unless they enjoy playing it out in detail.

Another version I've done is "If you can beat this next nest of phase spiders while making every roll at disadvantage and the spiders making every roll with advantage, we'll just call that the toughest fight of the day and handwave that you actually vanquished 10x that many spiders over the course of the day." BTW that fight would have been a Deadly fight (I checked afterwards) even if they hadn't been doing the advantage/disadvantage thing; the party came one roll away from TPK at least twice during that fight. I think both times were initiative rolls for a PC to jump on the ship's helm and take over after the current pilot got knocked out by spider poison, before the ship hit the ground for 20d6 to everyone on the ship.

My suggestion to you: it's fine to do this, as long as they players are enjoying it. The best way to make sure they are enjoying it is to make it optional, by giving them another option.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

For me, the first thing that comes to mind is this: Roll "encounter checks" until you have 10 successes. Success is 5+ on d10. For each point the party fails by, each character loses one resource of the player's choice. One resource is 1d6 damage, 1 expendable magic item, 1 condition, or one or more spells whose levels add up to the margin.

Handwaving something like this would not work for my group. The players would feel like they're having thing taken away from them while they were helpless to do anything about it. I generally feel that if something is going to cost significant resources, it's worth playing out.

 

[Shiroiken]

Well, that's where I'm hoping to get some advice. Should I limit it to hit point damage or hit dice loss, or should I include other resources as well?

I'd avoid Short Rest resources by simply allowing a Short Rest before they enter the meat of the adventure. Long Rest resources should be considered, IMO. It'd be tricky, and you'd have to custom design it for your PCs, but I can give you an idea. Everyone rolls a Wisdom/Survival check, and determine the following:

Front Line Warriors/Defenders (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, etc.)
Successful Save: -15% HP, loss of 1 Long Rest Resource
Failed Save: -25% HP, loss of 2 Long Rest Resources
Each Allied Failed Save: -10% additional HP

Skirmisher (Ranger, Rogue, etc)
Successful Save: -5% HP, loss of 1 Long Rest Resource
Failed Save: -30% HP, loss of 2-3 Long Rest Resources
Each Allied Failed Save: -5% additional HP or 1 additional Long Rest Resource (alternate)

Leader (Cleric, Druid, Bard)
Successful Save: -10% HP, loss of 1-2 Long Rest Resources
Failed Save: -20% HP, loss of 2-3 Long Rest Resources
Each Allied Failed Save: -5% HP or 1 additional Long Rest Resource (alternate)

Mage (Wizard, Sorcerer)
Successful Save: -5% HP, loss of 2 Long Rest Resources
Failed Save: -25% HP, loss of 3-4 Long Rest Resources
Each Allied Failed Save: loss of 1 Long Rest Resource

Some classes don't have Long Rest Resources, so you might want to up the HP loss by 5% per lost Resource. Some classes (notably Warlock) won't lose much beyond HP, since their stuff is Short Rest based. This is assuming you need to wear down the party some before they get to the main part of the adventure, but not cripple them. Adjust as needed based on level, class, personal desire, whatever

 

[Yaarel]

This might be simpler than what you are looking for, but what about ...

Fail forward.

The team does get lost, sidetracked, or whatever, ... but then something interesting happens.



If specifically looking for a mechanical resolution, maybe treat it like saves versus death?
• Three wins means reaching destination.
• Three losses means fiasco.