[AU] Champions of Life using scrolls

[Mallus]

OK, AU gurus, help me out here.

A Champion of Life "can use any spell-completion or spell-trigger item with the positive energy descriptor". Simple enough, right?

But how does that work with regard to scrolls? What's their effective caster level? Do they have one (does it default to their Champion level? To zero?)? What's their key caster ability for determining max usuable spell level (WIS? CHR?)?

The other Champions have some spell ability, but for those the descriptions include key ability and caster level. Can Champions of Life use PE spells on scroll regardless of the spells level/their level?

What am I missing? I checked the main AU messageboards and hunted the net for errata and came up with nada...

 

[Odhanan]

Interesting question, Mallus.

When you got a spell-completion item, this is an item that holds a spell already cast. The reader only finishes the spell. So the caster level etc. you use are those of the guy who created the item, not those of the user. So a Scroll of Cure Light Wounds comes in stats with the caster level of its creator. See what I mean ?
For more information, have a look at the Item Creation Feats.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

The other Champions have some spell ability, but for those the descriptions include key ability and caster level. Can Champions of Life use PE spells on scroll regardless of the spells level/their level?

I wouldn't restrict it. It's a fairly limited ability that helps spread around the healing burden. Otherwise, as Odhanan said, the caster level is already in the item.

 

[Mallus]

I wouldn't restrict it. It's a fairly limited ability that helps spread around the healing burden. Otherwise, as Odhanan said, the caster level is already in the item.

Thanks you you both.

But I'm still unclear on this (maybe I'm stuck thinking in 3.5 terms).

Say a 3.5E caster is 5th level. They have access to 3rd level (and lower) spells. They can attempt to use a spell from scroll of 4th (and higher) spell level, but they have to make a caster power check, and run the risk of mishap.

So you're saying this doesn't apply to Champions of Life? Spell level doesn't matter at all. If the spell has the PE descriptor, then the Champion can use it, with no risk of miscasting?

[edit] Is this Monte's ruling?

 

[Khorod]

1) For magical abilities Champions always use Charisma.

2) There are no Scrolls (mechanically) in AU. You can certainly use that as an in-game format for a Spell Completion item. If you want, you can even include a misfire chance. But the default assumption for Spell Completion items is little objects that anyone with magic can operate. These seems fairly logical, as single-use items are much more common in AU than D&D.

The more I think about my answer to (2), the more I wonder if I missed something. I'll double check when I get home tonight if no one else has a firm answer.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Thanks you you both.

But I'm still unclear on this (maybe I'm stuck thinking in 3.5 terms).

Say a 3.5E caster is 5th level. They have access to 3rd level (and lower) spells. They can attempt to use a spell from scroll of 4th (and higher) spell level, but they have to make a caster power check, and run the risk of mishap.

So you're saying this doesn't apply to Champions of Life? Spell level doesn't matter at all. If the spell has the PE descriptor, then the Champion can use it, with no risk of miscasting?

[edit] Is this Monte's ruling?

Ya know, I could go off on a rant here about needing Monte's ruling, but I won't. He'd say what I'm about to say. AE deliberately leaves some rules open for DM's interpretation. So in this case the DM gets to decide what it means.

(Khorod - you're thinking of tokens and detonations, which is Craft Single-Use Item.)

Here's the text from Craft Spell Completion Item:

A character with this feat can create a spell-completion item (like a scroll)
based on any spell she can cast. Spell-completion items are those that require the user to
be able to cast the spell they store. In effect, the stored spell is mostly cast already—the
user simply finishes it. Creating the item takes one day for each 1,000 gp of its base
price. When the character creates the item, she sets its caster level. The caster level must
be sufficient for her to cast the spell in question and no higher than the character’s own
level. To create the spell-completion item, she must spend 1/25 of this base price as an
XP Cost and use up raw materials costing half of this base price.)

The creator of the item must be able to cast the spell. In other words it has to be on their list and they need to be of a sufficient level to cast it. So, that leads us to DMs decision time. What I would rule is one of two things.

1. For purposes of positive descriptor spell completion and spell-trigger items, the Champion of Life can activate any of them.

2. For purposes of positive descriptor spell completion and spell-trigger items, the Champion of Life may activate any as if they had levels in magister or greenbond only for the purposes of triggering the item.

In both cases, they still use the caster level of the item itself, as per standard D&D. Personally I'd allow one because it's a) more fun and b) a better power for the character that's not at all unbalancing. YMMV.

 

[Khorod]

I wasn't thinking of tokens, I was muddling the two together.

Well, Champions have a number of abilities that scale based on the idea of (2). I'd be inclined to say that's the case, rules-wise. But the ability entry does say *any* item.